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Tankless Hot Water Heaters Gary KW4Z 01-04-2007
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Posted by Dennis on January 8, 2007, 6:26 pm


Not for nothing, but my 40 gal gas (spec grade) was installed when the house
was new in 1978 and is still going strong.

Tankless are really good for cabins and the like. Don't believe I would put
one in a new home unless it serves a single fixture located a long distance
from the water heater.

Just doesn't make any cents (don't forget to figure additional costs for
increased gas lines, larger meter, assoc. as well.)

> so for 500 bucks you can get a standard tank with a 12 year warranty.
> you would have to save more than 2500 bucks before saving a dime in
> energy.:( check the energy guide labels of tanks thats probably the
> entire operating cost of a regular tank. mine says 250 bucks a year,
> times 10 years wheres the savings?
>
> worse assuming your tank in in a heated part of the home the wasted
> energy in the heating season helps heat your home so its not wasted at
> all....... for the heating season. true its a loser for AC:(
>
> new regular tanks are actually very efficent, you can get higfher btu
> models and larger tanks for never run out showers if you want. my 50
> gallong 75,000 btu is near that, next tank will be 75 gallons, the 50
> barely fit my existing space.... new furnace and more space.
>
> think of another thing regular tanks are actually very reliable, other
> than spring a leak at end of life few have other troubles and are a
> bargain at 500 bucks.
>
> you could likely save a few hundered a year in heating costs for your
> new home by doubling wall thickness and upgraded insulation...... at
> say 30 grand extra.
>
> thats not a good deal either
>



Posted by on January 13, 2007, 11:59 pm



Dennis wrote:

> Not for nothing, but my 40 gal gas (spec grade) was installed when the house
> was new in 1978 and is still going strong.

We put in a Paloma PH6-DP in 1987, and have never made a repair
(although I bought a similar unit, for parts, for $50. about 15 years
ago- hard to find these old units). My local propane distributor has
one like it for their kitchen/ washrooms. We also cook with gas. Our
water pressure is about 20psi max (gravity system from a spring up the
hill) and this thing has always worked fine for us (family of 7 then,
3 now).The only thing I'd want different is the auto lighter- piezo or
"the little turbine" (Bosch), because of the gas- but the unit is on
the wall next to the toilet (in NW earthquake country- 2 shakes, no
problems), so it probably heats that space- a little.

> Tankless are really good for cabins and the like. part of the home the wasted
> > energy in the heating season helps heat your home so its not wasted at
> > all....... for the heating season. true its a loser for AC:(

We do have a small place- around 1000sq'- and the space for a tank is
also an issue. When we heated and cooked with wood, I had a tank that
ran through the woodstove... and took all insulation off of it- using
it as a radiator, as well as a hot water tank. That setup, w/ a solar
water panel, would be my favored Luddite fallback mode...

> > you could likely save a few hundered a year in heating costs for your
> > new home by doubling wall thickness and upgraded insulation...... at
> > say 30 grand extra... thats not a good deal either

Amen to that... I'd favor going to radiant floor heating, if the house
is situated to take advantage of that... and, if I lived in horse 'n
dairy country, I'd go for the 250 sq' slab with pipes embedded, on the
downwind side of the house, upon which manure is piled, to fire the
heat exchanger in my own slab flooring... ^..^


Posted by 7 LAMPSTICKS 7 FEASTS 7 AGES O on January 4, 2007, 5:58 pm




I know the payback: there is none.


# Fred # wrote:
> > your far better off to go with 2 standard larger tanks.
> >
> > are you trying to get endlkess hot water? or more concerned with saving
> > a little money on energy?
> >
> > 2 tankless will require large gas service and remember a power failure
> > probably means no hot water
> >
> > standard tanks even forced thru wall vents have enough hot water stored
> > for a couple showers
> >
>
> If I understand correctly, one correctly sized tankless could supply enough
> hot water for all the appliances plus showers and baths at the same time. As
> for the electric outages, a UPS - uninterruptible power supply, just for the
> controls - should take care of that.
>
> My concern is the reliability, and I hear some of the tankless heaters are
> not good. I've been using hot water dispensers for years and those tanks
> goes out about 5 years (something always goes out in about 5 years) and I
> just couldn't justify replacing a tankless every 5 or even 10 years. Hot
> water heater: $500, Tankless: $3,000. Tankless has to save a lot of energy
> to justify the extra cost. Anyone know what the payback is for tankless?


Posted by Rich on January 4, 2007, 6:23 pm


7 LAMPSTICKS 7 FEASTS 7 AGES OF DISPENSATION 7 BOWLS 7 TRUMPETS 7 SEALS
wrote:

And an earlier quote from this know it all:

>Yes, don't believe anything you hear.

>Especially, don't believe this.

> I know the payback: there is none.



I like the depth of knowledge that you expound on this thread but I do like
your quoted statements! Now go away and bother some other group with your
depth of knowledge please! Maybe alt.youdontknowwhatiknow.andicanproveit


Rich



>
>
> # Fred # wrote:
>>> your far better off to go with 2 standard larger tanks.
>>>
>>> are you trying to get endlkess hot water? or more concerned with
>>> saving a little money on energy?
>>>
>>> 2 tankless will require large gas service and remember a power
>>> failure probably means no hot water
>>>
>>> standard tanks even forced thru wall vents have enough hot water
>>> stored for a couple showers
>>>
>>
>> If I understand correctly, one correctly sized tankless could supply
>> enough hot water for all the appliances plus showers and baths at
>> the same time. As for the electric outages, a UPS - uninterruptible
>> power supply, just for the controls - should take care of that.
>>
>> My concern is the reliability, and I hear some of the tankless
>> heaters are not good. I've been using hot water dispensers for years
>> and those tanks goes out about 5 years (something always goes out in
>> about 5 years) and I just couldn't justify replacing a tankless
>> every 5 or even 10 years. Hot water heater: $500, Tankless: $3,000.
>> Tankless has to save a lot of energy to justify the extra cost.
>> Anyone know what the payback is for tankless?



Posted by 7 LAMPSTICKS 7 FEASTS 7 AGES O on January 4, 2007, 5:55 pm



I don't even need to research to know: DON'T DO IT!


DerbyDad03 wrote:
> Along with reading the info you will get in response to your current
> question in this group, may I suggest you perform a Google Groups
> search on the subject. This question has been discused in
> alt.home.repair, alt.building.construction, misc.consumers.house,
> misc.consumers.frugal-living and many other groups. There is a lot of
> information from various sources available in these groups.
>
> Go to http://groups.google.com/ and enter your query.
>
> Good Luck!
>
> Gary KW4Z wrote:
> > My plans are to specify a (Gas) Tankless Hot Water Heater in our new home
> > for my wife and myself. I'm thinking about actualy including two of them,
> > one for bathrooms and one for Kitchen and Laundry demands but not sure on
> > the total number to have yet.
> >
> > I've looked at Takagi, Rinnai, Noritz, Paloma, Bosch, and Rheem. Like
> > everything else most familiarity with Tankless hot water heaters comes from
> > advertisements on the radio and TV and of those Rinnai seems to put the most
> > money in that area.
> >
> > Of you who have a tankless hot water heater which ones are the most trouble
> > free and which would you recommend? Thanks, in advance, for your help and
> > input.


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