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Subject Author Date
Time/Materials Contract LittleF 08-13-2007
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Posted by Mike Flar on August 13, 2007, 6:18 pm
LittleF wrote:
> We are considering hiring a contractor to demo, install kitchen
> cabinets, do electrical work (possible additional 220 line for
> separate cooktop), and plumbing for a small kitchen remodel. He
> subcontracts the elect. and plumbing, and states all are licensed. We
> are buying the cabinets and countertop/sink, appliances ourselves. He
> works on a T and M basis, time and materials. Time cost is $115 an
> hour for 3 men working. He estimates the job at about $6000-7000
> total, but his contract provides for no max for the job. His
> references are good. Small kitchen about 13 feet by 7 feet, galley
> style. Floors and painting we are doing ourselves also.
>
> What should one consider with signing a T and M contract?

First, a real contractor isn't going to install customer supplied
materials. There's way too many pitfalls. From faulty material, to wrong
material, and everything in between. Who bites the bullet?

Second, exactly at what cost are the "subs" going to charge?

Third, $115 an hour for skilled labor for 3 people? Are you kidding me?
No company can charge that little including all tools, overhead, etc.

Sounds as if you've found a handyman & a couple of winos, ready to have
a bottle of MD-20/20 on you.

Real Goods Solar, Inc.
Posted by Moe Jones on August 13, 2007, 8:02 pm
Mike Flar wrote:
> LittleF wrote:
>> We are considering hiring a contractor to demo, install kitchen
>> cabinets, do electrical work (possible additional 220 line for
>> separate cooktop), and plumbing for a small kitchen remodel. He
>> subcontracts the elect. and plumbing, and states all are licensed. We
>> are buying the cabinets and countertop/sink, appliances ourselves. He
>> works on a T and M basis, time and materials. Time cost is $115 an
>> hour for 3 men working. He estimates the job at about $6000-7000
>> total, but his contract provides for no max for the job. His
>> references are good. Small kitchen about 13 feet by 7 feet, galley
>> style. Floors and painting we are doing ourselves also.
>>
>> What should one consider with signing a T and M contract?
>
> First, a real contractor isn't going to install customer supplied
> materials. There's way too many pitfalls. From faulty material, to
> wrong material, and everything in between. Who bites the bullet?
>
> Second, exactly at what cost are the "subs" going to charge?
>
> Third, $115 an hour for skilled labor for 3 people? Are you kidding
> me? No company can charge that little including all tools, overhead,
> etc.
> Sounds as if you've found a handyman & a couple of winos, ready to
> have a bottle of MD-20/20 on you.

You are so right!!!!!!!

--
Moe Jones
HVAC Service Technician
Energy Equalizers Inc.
Houston, Texas
www.EnergyEqualizers.com



Posted by Paul Franklin on August 13, 2007, 6:59 pm

>We are considering hiring a contractor to demo, install kitchen
>cabinets, do electrical work (possible additional 220 line for
>separate cooktop), and plumbing for a small kitchen remodel. He
>subcontracts the elect. and plumbing, and states all are licensed. We
>are buying the cabinets and countertop/sink, appliances ourselves. He
>works on a T and M basis, time and materials. Time cost is $115 an
>hour for 3 men working. He estimates the job at about $6000-7000
>total, but his contract provides for no max for the job. His
>references are good. Small kitchen about 13 feet by 7 feet, galley
>style. Floors and painting we are doing ourselves also.
>
>What should one consider with signing a T and M contract?

With proper care, a T&M contract is a perfectly reasonable approach.
The problem is, most folks don't know what to what out for (hence your
question!)

There's an article in the latest Journal of Light Construction about
T&M contracts. There's some good information in there about what to
what out for in these types of contracts. it's written for the
contractor audience, but the info still applies.

HTH,

Paul


Posted by LittleF on August 13, 2007, 7:07 pm
On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 18:59:56 -0400, Paul Franklin

>
>
>With proper care, a T&M contract is a perfectly reasonable approach.
>The problem is, most folks don't know what to what out for (hence your
>question!)
>
>There's an article in the latest Journal of Light Construction about
>T&M contracts. There's some good information in there about what to
>what out for in these types of contracts. it's written for the
>contractor audience, but the info still applies.
>
>HTH,
>
>Paul

I would like to read this, but it appears membership is needed.

Can you possibly copy/paste it here, from online access?

Thanks


Posted by John Grabowski on August 14, 2007, 8:35 am

> We are considering hiring a contractor to demo, install kitchen
> cabinets, do electrical work (possible additional 220 line for
> separate cooktop), and plumbing for a small kitchen remodel. He
> subcontracts the elect. and plumbing, and states all are licensed. We
> are buying the cabinets and countertop/sink, appliances ourselves. He
> works on a T and M basis, time and materials. Time cost is $115 an
> hour for 3 men working. He estimates the job at about $6000-7000
> total, but his contract provides for no max for the job. His
> references are good. Small kitchen about 13 feet by 7 feet, galley
> style. Floors and painting we are doing ourselves also.
>
> What should one consider with signing a T and M contract?


You need to have a cut off point. A maximum price. I suggest that you get
a few other prices before committing. A kitchen remodel is not an unusual
project that a contractor cannot give a firm price. A recent customer of
mine got a price of $27,000.00 from a contractor to remodel a kitchen in a
two bedroom condo. She wound up sub- contracting everything herself for
less than half of that.


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