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Posted by John Grabowski on July 27, 2005, 8:35 pm
I think that these interlock kits utilize the existing main breaker and one
new 2 pole circuit breaker for the generator input. The two pole generator
circuit breaker will need to be located just below the main breaker in the
existing electrical panel. This insures that when the panel main is closed
the genny main is open. Shutting off the panel main will allow the genny
main to be turned on which in turn blocks the panel main from being flipped
back on.
>
> Excellent info John. I looked high and low and couldn't find an
> interlock kit on CH's website. It looks like just a lockout plate and
> decals in the kit. Isn't there two breakers in an interlock kit? One
> for the utility power and one for the genny? If I do the interlock kit,
> will I need another 30amp 240 breaker and wire it to another plug box to
> connect the generator to?
>
>
> --
> rh455
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> rh455's Profile: http://www.homeplot.com/member.php?userid=29
> View this thread: http://www.homeplot.com/showthread.php?t=56393
>
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Posted by Pop on July 27, 2005, 8:46 pm
>I think that these interlock kits utilize the existing
>main breaker and one
> new 2 pole circuit breaker for the generator input.
> The two pole generator
> circuit breaker will need to be located just below
> the main breaker in the
> existing electrical panel. This insures that when
> the panel main is closed
> the genny main is open. Shutting off the panel main
> will allow the genny
> main to be turned on which in turn blocks the panel
> main from being flipped
> back on.
>
>
>
> message
>>
>> Excellent info John. I looked high and low and
>> couldn't find an
>> interlock kit on CH's website. It looks like just a
>> lockout plate and
>> decals in the kit. Isn't there two breakers in an
>> interlock kit? One
>> for the utility power and one for the genny? If I do
>> the interlock kit,
>> will I need another 30amp 240 breaker and wire it to
>> another plug box to
>> connect the generator to?
>>
>>
>> --
>> rh455
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> rh455's Profile:
>> http://www.homeplot.com/member.php?userid=29
>> View this thread:
>> http://www.homeplot.com/showthread.php?t=56393
>>
>
The way mine works is, you remove the branch wire from
the breaker and connect to the box, which goes to the
Common of a dpdt switch. The NC of that switch goes to
the regular breaker, so normally everything works as
before. The NO goes to the generator. Flip the switch
and power come from the generator instead of the power
company.
Thus, there is no possible way to ever switch the
generator output to the power company wiring. Barring
severe damage, it's foolproof.
I have 12 ckts on mine; that's plenty to run
everything I might need in an emergency situation. Oh,
it's also got an overcurrent breaker in case too muich
power's drawn, as does the generator also. Nothing
but breakers, so it's a pretty simple design. There's
also a current meter for each leg of the incoming split
phase power so you can see how balanced the thing is on
your generator.
It's convenient for testing periodically too, since
you just flip on the switches you need to create your
load. It's not even necessary to touch the main
breaker. Transfer switches make lots of sense. The
more expensive ones will even start the generator for
you, and switch everything over, automatically. But I
ain't that rich & don't mind flipping a switch &
pushing a button to start the generator.
Pop
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Posted by rh455 on July 27, 2005, 10:11 pm
John, in doing some research I found that the biggest fear of most is
that the main breaker may fail while in the off position thus still
allowing power flow as if it were still on. I suppose that this cenario
is still possible with an interlock kit. Is this right?
Pop, I don't have either switch at the moment, but don't I have to do
both of the steps you listed regardless of which switch I get? With a
cutoff, I go outside, throw the cutoff and lock it down. Then connect
the generator and turn on the circuits that I want. With a transfer
switch, I have to turn the main switch on the transfer switch from
utility to generator, connect the generator and select the circuits
that I want to run. Did I miss something? Aren't I doing the same steps
regardless of what switch I choose?
Another problem I'm facing is that the breaker box in my house is in a
confined area, barely wider than the box itself. I won't have any place
in the immediate area to install the transfer switch. From all ads I've
seen, the harness is only about 2'. The wall that the breaker box backs
up to is the breakfast area, so Wifey won't be thrilled about that. Any
ideas?
--
rh455
------------------------------------------------------------------------
rh455's Profile: http://www.homeplot.com/member.php?userid=29
View this thread: http://www.homeplot.com/showthread.php?t=56393
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Posted by Pop on July 28, 2005, 10:51 am
Comment inline :===>
>
> John, in doing some research I found that the biggest
> fear of most is
> that the main breaker may fail while in the off
> position thus still
> allowing power flow as if it were still on. I suppose
> that this cenario
> is still possible with an interlock kit. Is this
> right?
>
===> Not addressed to me, but ... I have to wonder how
a mains breaker could "fail" while it's in the off
position. Some of them take a man and a boy just to
set them on.
What would be the "failure" mechanism they are
worried about? I can't see a Mains breaker either
turning ON spontaneously, or mechanically failing so it
can't be turned back on, being much of a worry.
The biggest "danger" in my opinion, is always that
the wrong person might discover the breaker and flip it
from ignorance, or a child playing in there, neither of
which should be easy to do. "Should" being the
operative word.
>
> Pop, I don't have either switch at the moment, but
> don't I have to do
> both of the steps you listed regardless of which
> switch I get?
===> I think that depends on your local codes, not my
descrip; please read on.
With a
> cutoff, I go outside, throw the cutoff and lock it
> down.
===> OK, that totally disconnects the entire house,
which is practical and totally acceptable. Now nothing
can go into the power lines as long as the switch was
the right type and design. So, I agree.
Then connect
> the generator and turn on the circuits that I want.
===> The generator is always connected. In my (and
most others I know of) case, the generator can be left
plugged in. The only caveat is that, by code here at
least, there must be a "quick disconnect" provided for
the generator. That's so the power company, police,
fire, etc. can quickly disconnect power if there is a
generator running. So I was told, anyway.
My generator isn't literally connected all the time
though, per sae. I often load it onto a trailer to
haul around for the occasional job where I need
poertable power. It's only an 8,000 watt generator
(surge, I forget the steady run wattage at the moment).
In the summer it's not connected since it's so seldom
needed. Soon's the winter weather comes though, I put
it in its little compartment, plug it in, fuel it etc,
and plug it in for the duration. So, I may or may not
have to plug it in. To use it, I just roll it out of
its little "house", push the start button, and let 'er
rip soon's it's warmed up a bit.
But, point is, if your setup were good enough, you'd
never even have to disconnect it. Its output isn't
connected to anything because of the transfer switch.
With a transfer
> switch, I have to turn the main switch on the
> transfer switch from
> utility to generator,
===> No. There is no Mains switch other than the
breakers on the generator.
connect the generator and select the circuits
> that I want to run.
===> Yes, you would have to do that. My transfer
switch has 8 ckts, one of which is a 220V pair for the
well pump (we're rural). The other 6 go for furnace,
fridge, two for lights, one for the bedroom outlets,
and the last one to the basement lighting. If I need
to run the pump periodically I have to be sure the
fridge and furnace aren't running, but that's an
acceptable situation for me since I can't afford a
bigger generator. It takes the pump about two minutes
or so to build up the pressure tank and then I turn it
off; that's plenty for occasional drinking water and a
couple of toilet flushes, plus it protects the water
heater.
It's only REAL intent is to keep the house from
freezing and lit up for saftey/protection. The rest is
just gravy so that we can stay here if the power goes
out for an extended period of time, which has happened
twice since we got it, the worst being in '98.
Did I miss something? Aren't I doing the same steps
> regardless of what switch I choose?
===> Sort of, but no, not quite. I apologize for
breaking up your paras like that, but I thought it
might be easier than trying to dispute or agree to
things that might interact. I don't consider the
"number" of actions as important as I do the simplicity
and reliability of the actions to be taken.
eg, it doesn't matter whether the generator is
plugged in or not. My transfer switch has no mains
breaker; just "replacement" breakers to my breakre box
for the generator to use. The "switches" in the
transfer switch are actually individual breakers. You
cannot use them like you would alight switch, but they
are designed to be turned on and off without becoming
damaged as the breakers in your box might do.
>
> Another problem I'm facing is that the breaker box in
> my house is in a
> confined area, barely wider than the box itself. I
> won't have any place
> in the immediate area to install the transfer switch.
> From all ads I've
> seen, the harness is only about 2'. The wall that the
> breaker box backs
> up to is the breakfast area, so Wifey won't be
> thrilled about that. Any
> ideas?
===> True, the harness is short and best installed next
to your breaker/fuse box. But, when you get into the
instructions, you'll find I think, instructions to
extend it, including the wire gage and current
capacities, wire lengths, etc. for extension.
So, that harness can be extended. My location isn't
as cramped as yours, but I still chose to add about 6
feet to the harness. I used a box with clampdowns to
splice the wires, and ran them up to the breaker box
thru another piece of metal conduit.
Actually, since the transfer switch wiring (in my
case at least) consists of stranded wire in that
harness, it's my opinion that they assume you'll extend
it. If you've ever worked with stranded wire that
size, you'll know what I mean <g>! I extended it with
appropriately sized solid wire.
I forget whether it's "emergen" (no quotes) or
something close to that, but try googling on that and
see if you don't come across a transfer switch web
site. If that doesn't work, come back and ask me for
the web site. I'd just give it now, but I'm disabled
and at the moment it would be sort of a hardship to get
out there to find it.
Aha! Found it:
http://www.nbmc.com/images/emergenistall.jpg
And the web site entry is at:
http://www.nbmc.com/emergen/index.html
They give a pretty good description that might help
with understanding what i'm talking about.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned: You also need to
earth your generator to the house earth connection. I
think that's shown on that page, too. Safety reasons,
obviously.
HTH,
Pop
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Posted by Member TPVFD on July 28, 2005, 4:39 pm
rh455 wrote:
> John, in doing some research I found that the biggest fear of most is
> that the main breaker may fail while in the off position thus still
> allowing power flow as if it were still on. I suppose that this cenario
> is still possible with an interlock kit. Is this right?
>
>
> Pop, I don't have either switch at the moment, but don't I have to do
> both of the steps you listed regardless of which switch I get? With a
> cutoff, I go outside, throw the cutoff and lock it down. Then connect
> the generator and turn on the circuits that I want. With a transfer
> switch, I have to turn the main switch on the transfer switch from
> utility to generator, connect the generator and select the circuits
> that I want to run. Did I miss something? Aren't I doing the same steps
> regardless of what switch I choose?
>
> Another problem I'm facing is that the breaker box in my house is in a
> confined area, barely wider than the box itself. I won't have any place
> in the immediate area to install the transfer switch. From all ads I've
> seen, the harness is only about 2'. The wall that the breaker box backs
> up to is the breakfast area, so Wifey won't be thrilled about that. Any
> ideas?
That is a straw man put forward in an attempt to answer those who say
that they would never forget to open the main first. I don't see a
failure of a main breaker in the closed position as at all likely. What
I do see as likely is that the user will be tired, stressed out, drunk,
or elsewhere. If the user is elsewhere then their no it all teenage
child, fed up with no power wife, or ever so helpful neighbor will
attempt to use a system were a single mistake in two separate operations
will cause injury of death. With the interlock kit and a fixed male
inlet there is no way to make a deadly mistake with a suicide cord or a
back feed to the outside utility lines. In forty years of electric work
I have never seen a main breaker fail closed. I have however seen more
than a dozen of them fail open or unable to reset after opening on
repeated overloads.
To overcome your limited space you can mount a SquareD rain tight, feed
through panel out doors between the meter and the point of entry of the
service conductors. That panel will contain the interlock kit. It will
also provide you an outdoor source for air conditioning, well pump,
outbuildings, jacuzzi, or any other outside load. The flanged inlet;
such as the one shown at
<http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/catalog/default.php?cPath=21_27>;
can be mounted right at the feed through panel. That will put your
generator operation all in one place.
If your home has any form of dual metering such as for off peak use of
AC or heating then you need to have the installation checked by an
electrician experienced in emergency power installations to eliminate
any possible sneak current paths between the two meters via equipment
served by both.
You won't have to select the circuits as long as you don't turn on too
much load there will be no problem.
--
Tom Horne
"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous
for general use." Thomas Alva Edison
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