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Subject Author Date
Un-insulated water heater tank by woodstove! Bill 03-28-2008
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Posted by hallerb@aol.com on March 29, 2008, 6:09 pm
>
>
>
>
>
> > on 3/28/2008 9:59 AM Bill said the following:
> > > As you may know, an electric water heater can be 30% of your electric
> > > bill...
>
> > > Well I got to thinking... I have this nice woodstove which puts out a =
lot
> > > of
> > > heat and it is always 80 to 100 degrees (F) next to the woodstove.
>
> > > Is there some way I can use this heat to "pre-heat" the water going in=
to my
> > > hot water heater????
>
> > > Well I came up with an idea and tried it out. It works!
>
> > > I got a used 50 gallon water heater at a recycling center. Then remove=
d the
> > > sheet metal cover and removed the insulation. So now I had just a bare=

> > > metal
> > > 50 gallon tank. I painted it black as in theory black absorbs heat bet=
ter.
>
> > > Then I placed this tank next to my woodstove. Then disconnected the co=
ld
> > > water going to my hot water heater and ran that to the bottom (drain)
> > > connection on the tank by the woodstove. Then ran a pipe going out the=
top
> > > of the tank by the woodstove to the cold water inlet of my electric ho=
t
> > > water heater. (Cold into the bottom, warm out the top.)
>
> > > Note: My electric water heater is located on the other side of the wal=
l
> > > next
> > > to my woodstove.
>
> > > After just a few hours, the water coming out of the top of the tank by=
the
> > > wood stove was about 70 degrees. (The water from the city going into t=
he
> > > tank is 40 degrees F.) At this point the bottom of the tank felt cold =
and
> > > the top was not cold.
>
> > > The next morning, the entire tank was slightly warm.
>
> > > Anyway I am now "pre-heating" the water going to my hot water heater. =
So
> > > instead of my water heater having to heat up 40 degree water, it will =
only
> > > need to heat up water which will be from 70-80 degrees. Perhaps warmer=
if I
> > > have the woodstove going full blast and have not used any hot water fo=
r a
> > > while. So should save some $$ on my electric bill.
>
> > > Building code note: Now that I see this idea works, I'm going to insta=
ll
> > > the
> > > tank next to my woodstove to "code"* like a water heater tank would be=
.
> > > That
> > > is drip pan, T&P valve, and strapped to wall for earthquakes. *I don't=

> > > suppose code covers anything like this? I also installed a valve and p=
ipe
> > > to
> > > outside for draining the tank.
>
> > > Temperature and "steam" note: The temperature next to my woodstove nev=
er
> > > gets above 115 degrees F. and water boils at 212 degrees. So no possib=
ility
> > > of steam being created.
>
> > How about a coil of soft copper tubing attached to the rear of the
> > woodstove before it goes into your storage tank ( a coil like on the
> > back of a dehumidifer) which would transfer heat by convection rather
> > than radiation?
>
> Do that and you start running into the potential for steam, which leads
> to needing to deal with the related hazards that can come of it being in
> an enclosed place... (Can you say boiler license, pressure vessel,
> regulator valve, state inspector, and "expensive"? Sure... I knew you
> could!)
>
> --
> Don Bruder - dak...@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitel=
ist,
> or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndSha=
dow"
> somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without=
my
> ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more =
info- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

if there were a way to takew the flue exhaust gasses of woodstove thru
the old flue of a gas hot water tank with no burner.........

PexSupply Save 10 468x60
Posted by Bob F on March 29, 2008, 10:14 pm

>
>
>
>
>
> > on 3/28/2008 9:59 AM Bill said the following:
> > > As you may know, an electric water heater can be 30% of your electric
> > > bill...
>
> > > Well I got to thinking... I have this nice woodstove which puts out a lot
> > > of
> > > heat and it is always 80 to 100 degrees (F) next to the woodstove.
>
> > > Is there some way I can use this heat to "pre-heat" the water going into
> > > my
> > > hot water heater????
>
> > > Well I came up with an idea and tried it out. It works!
>
> > > I got a used 50 gallon water heater at a recycling center. Then removed
> > > the
> > > sheet metal cover and removed the insulation. So now I had just a bare
> > > metal
> > > 50 gallon tank. I painted it black as in theory black absorbs heat better.
>
> > > Then I placed this tank next to my woodstove. Then disconnected the cold
> > > water going to my hot water heater and ran that to the bottom (drain)
> > > connection on the tank by the woodstove. Then ran a pipe going out the top
> > > of the tank by the woodstove to the cold water inlet of my electric hot
> > > water heater. (Cold into the bottom, warm out the top.)
>
> > > Note: My electric water heater is located on the other side of the wall
> > > next
> > > to my woodstove.
>
> > > After just a few hours, the water coming out of the top of the tank by the
> > > wood stove was about 70 degrees. (The water from the city going into the
> > > tank is 40 degrees F.) At this point the bottom of the tank felt cold and
> > > the top was not cold.
>
> > > The next morning, the entire tank was slightly warm.
>
> > > Anyway I am now "pre-heating" the water going to my hot water heater. So
> > > instead of my water heater having to heat up 40 degree water, it will only
> > > need to heat up water which will be from 70-80 degrees. Perhaps warmer if
> > > I
> > > have the woodstove going full blast and have not used any hot water for a
> > > while. So should save some $$ on my electric bill.
>
> > > Building code note: Now that I see this idea works, I'm going to install
> > > the
> > > tank next to my woodstove to "code"* like a water heater tank would be.
> > > That
> > > is drip pan, T&P valve, and strapped to wall for earthquakes. *I don't
> > > suppose code covers anything like this? I also installed a valve and pipe
> > > to
> > > outside for draining the tank.
>
> > > Temperature and "steam" note: The temperature next to my woodstove never
> > > gets above 115 degrees F. and water boils at 212 degrees. So no
> > > possibility
> > > of steam being created.
>
> > How about a coil of soft copper tubing attached to the rear of the
> > woodstove before it goes into your storage tank ( a coil like on the
> > back of a dehumidifer) which would transfer heat by convection rather
> > than radiation?
>
> Do that and you start running into the potential for steam, which leads
> to needing to deal with the related hazards that can come of it being in
> an enclosed place... (Can you say boiler license, pressure vessel,
> regulator valve, state inspector, and "expensive"? Sure... I knew you
> could!)
>
> --
> Don Bruder - dak...@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
> or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
> somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
> ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more
> info- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

if there were a way to takew the flue exhaust gasses of woodstove thru
the old flue of a gas hot water tank with no burner.........

****************************************************************
Creosote would be a problem.




Posted by Bill on March 30, 2008, 10:34 am
"willshak" wrote in message
>
> How about a coil of soft copper tubing attached to the rear of the
> woodstove before it goes into your storage tank ( a coil like on the back
> of a dehumidifer) which would transfer heat by convection rather than
> radiation?
>

I've read a book on steam boilers and know just enough about the subject to
want to avoid creation of any steam. I've read about steam boilers exploding
and being launched like a rocket up out of the house and landing on a
neighbor's house, etc.

Also I would think that avoiding steam would depend on a pump circulating
the water. I live in a rural area and we have frequent power outages.
Sometime they last for 2 days.



Posted by hallerb@aol.com on March 30, 2008, 12:28 pm
> "willshak" wrote in message
>
> > How about a coil of soft copper tubing attached to the rear of the
> > woodstove before it goes into your storage tank ( a coil like on the bac=
k
> > of a dehumidifer) which would transfer heat by convection rather than
> > radiation?
>
> I've read a book on steam boilers and know just enough about the subject t=
o
> want to avoid creation of any steam. I've read about steam boilers explodi=
ng
> and being launched like a rocket up out of the house and landing on a
> neighbor's house, etc.
>
> Also I would think that avoiding steam would depend on a pump circulating
> the water. I live in a rural area and we have frequent power outages.
> Sometime they last for 2 days.

T&P valve anywhere in hot water circuit should open if steam etc is
created...........

ideally old tank would have its own T&P valve........

did you know the old side arm how water tanks common in the 60s used a
copper tube coil in a gas burner for water heating. noi circuliating
pump, must of been from natural convention..........

long time ago i was a little kid

Posted by hallerb@aol.com on March 30, 2008, 12:31 pm
>
> > "willshak" wrote in message
>
> > > How about a coil of soft copper tubing attached to the rear of the
> > > woodstove before it goes into your storage tank ( a coil like on the b=
ack
> > > of a dehumidifer) which would transfer heat by convection rather than
> > > radiation?
>
> > I've read a book on steam boilers and know just enough about the subject=
to
> > want to avoid creation of any steam. I've read about steam boilers explo=
ding
> > and being launched like a rocket up out of the house and landing on a
> > neighbor's house, etc.
>
> > Also I would think that avoiding steam would depend on a pump circulatin=
g
> > the water. I live in a rural area and we have frequent power outages.
> > Sometime they last for 2 days.
>
> T&P valve anywhere in hot water circuit should open if steam etc is
> created...........
>
> ideally old tank would have its own T&P valve........
>
> did you know the old side arm how water tanks common in the 60s used a
> copper tube coil in a gas burner for water heating. noi circuliating
> pump, must of been from natural convention..........
>
> long time ago i was a little kid

googled side arm hot water tank and look what turned up

http://cgi.ebay.com/DIY-Side-Arm-Water-Heater-plans-for-wood-burner-boiler_W=
0QQitemZ130209878118QQihZ003QQcategoryZ42234QQcmdZViewItem

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