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Un-insulated water heater tank by woodstove!

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Un-insulated water heater tank by woodstove! Bill 03-28-2008
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Posted by TKM on March 28, 2008, 12:34 pm

> As you may know, an electric water heater can be 30% of your electric
> bill...
>
> Well I got to thinking... I have this nice woodstove which puts out a lot
> of heat and it is always 80 to 100 degrees (F) next to the woodstove.
>
> Is there some way I can use this heat to "pre-heat" the water going into
> my hot water heater????
>
> Well I came up with an idea and tried it out. It works!
>
> I got a used 50 gallon water heater at a recycling center. Then removed
> the sheet metal cover and removed the insulation. So now I had just a bare
> metal 50 gallon tank. I painted it black as in theory black absorbs heat
> better.
>
> Then I placed this tank next to my woodstove. Then disconnected the cold
> water going to my hot water heater and ran that to the bottom (drain)
> connection on the tank by the woodstove. Then ran a pipe going out the top
> of the tank by the woodstove to the cold water inlet of my electric hot
> water heater. (Cold into the bottom, warm out the top.)
>
> Note: My electric water heater is located on the other side of the wall
> next to my woodstove.
>
> After just a few hours, the water coming out of the top of the tank by the
> wood stove was about 70 degrees. (The water from the city going into the
> tank is 40 degrees F.) At this point the bottom of the tank felt cold and
> the top was not cold.
>
> The next morning, the entire tank was slightly warm.
>
> Anyway I am now "pre-heating" the water going to my hot water heater. So
> instead of my water heater having to heat up 40 degree water, it will only
> need to heat up water which will be from 70-80 degrees. Perhaps warmer if
> I have the woodstove going full blast and have not used any hot water for
> a while. So should save some $$ on my electric bill.
>
> Building code note: Now that I see this idea works, I'm going to install
> the tank next to my woodstove to "code"* like a water heater tank would
> be. That is drip pan, T&P valve, and strapped to wall for earthquakes. *I
> don't suppose code covers anything like this? I also installed a valve and
> pipe to outside for draining the tank.
>
> Temperature and "steam" note: The temperature next to my woodstove never
> gets above 115 degrees F. and water boils at 212 degrees. So no
> possibility of steam being created.
>
Sounds like a great idea to me. That tank of warm water (I think such a
thing is also called a "tempering tank") also radiates heat back into your
space when the stove fire goes down and so the room should hold a more even
temperature. It's also an emergency water supply -- assuming you can get
the water in the tank out with no watter pressure if, for some reason the
main water supply fails.

Living on a farm many years ago, we had a similar arrangement. The
uninsulated hot water tank was placed next to the coal furnance to soak up
radiant heat and a loop of steel pipe went from the tank through the fire
box in the furnace to speed up the process. There was an auxiliary kerosene
heater also connected to the tank for heating water in the summertime.

TKM



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Posted by ransley on March 28, 2008, 12:38 pm
> As you may know, an electric water heater can be 30% of your electric
> bill...
>
> Well I got to thinking... I have this nice woodstove which puts out a lot =
of
> heat and it is always 80 to 100 degrees (F) next to the woodstove.
>
> Is there some way I can use this heat to "pre-heat" the water going into m=
y
> hot water heater????
>
> Well I came up with an idea and tried it out. It works!
>
> I got a used 50 gallon water heater at a recycling center. Then removed th=
e
> sheet metal cover and removed the insulation. So now I had just a bare met=
al
> 50 gallon tank. I painted it black as in theory black absorbs heat better.=

>
> Then I placed this tank next to my woodstove. Then disconnected the cold
> water going to my hot water heater and ran that to the bottom (drain)
> connection on the tank by the woodstove. Then ran a pipe going out the top=

> of the tank by the woodstove to the cold water inlet of my electric hot
> water heater. (Cold into the bottom, warm out the top.)
>
> Note: My electric water heater is located on the other side of the wall ne=
xt
> to my woodstove.
>
> After just a few hours, the water coming out of the top of the tank by the=

> wood stove was about 70 degrees. (The water from the city going into the
> tank is 40 degrees F.) At this point the bottom of the tank felt cold and
> the top was not cold.
>
> The next morning, the entire tank was slightly warm.
>
> Anyway I am now "pre-heating" the water going to my hot water heater. So
> instead of my water heater having to heat up 40 degree water, it will only=

> need to heat up water which will be from 70-80 degrees. Perhaps warmer if =
I
> have the woodstove going full blast and have not used any hot water for a
> while. So should save some $$ on my electric bill.
>
> Building code note: Now that I see this idea works, I'm going to install t=
he
> tank next to my woodstove to "code"* like a water heater tank would be. Th=
at
> is drip pan, T&P valve, and strapped to wall for earthquakes. *I don't
> suppose code covers anything like this? I also installed a valve and pipe =
to
> outside for draining the tank.
>
> Temperature and "steam" note: The temperature next to my woodstove never
> gets above 115 degrees F. and water boils at 212 degrees. So no possibilit=
y
> of steam being created.

If you have the time get another tank, put it outside with bypass
valves, when nightime temps are above incomming water temp let the
tank fill, the sun will heat it fast

Posted by S. Barker on March 28, 2008, 5:25 pm
And in the winter it'll bust wide open.

s


If you have the time get another tank, put it outside with bypass
valves, when nightime temps are above incomming water temp let the
tank fill, the sun will heat it fast



Posted by Bill on March 29, 2008, 10:19 am
"ransley" wrote in message
>
> If you have the time get another tank, put it outside with bypass
> valves, when nightime temps are above incomming water temp
> let the tank fill, the sun will heat it fast
>

Actually for the summer, I am thinking about running a bunch of plastic
pipes in my attic which gets to be very hot. Plastic because I will need to
drain it each fall to prevent the pipes from freezing.

Also with this idea, I am thinking of installing another insulated water
tank and using a solar powered pump to circulate water slowly from the
insulated tank through the attic pipes and back to the insulated tank.

My city water is very cold year round. In the summer I would run it through
the tank by the woodstove first and this would help to cool the living room
(when using hot water) and bring the water up to room temperature. Then on
to the attic/insulated tank, then on to the electric water heater.



Posted by Neon John on March 29, 2008, 2:39 pm

>"ransley" wrote in message
>>
>> If you have the time get another tank, put it outside with bypass
>> valves, when nightime temps are above incomming water temp
>> let the tank fill, the sun will heat it fast
>>
>
>Actually for the summer, I am thinking about running a bunch of plastic
>pipes in my attic which gets to be very hot. Plastic because I will need to
>drain it each fall to prevent the pipes from freezing.

You'd probably be dollars ahead to simply get that heat out of your attic and
reduce
the load on your AC.
>
>Also with this idea, I am thinking of installing another insulated water
>tank and using a solar powered pump to circulate water slowly from the
>insulated tank through the attic pipes and back to the insulated tank.

Why would you waste money on an under-powered and over-priced solar pump that
quits
working when the sun goes behind a cloud when a conventional pump works so well
and
draws so little power?

Solar water heat from the roof works well but generally, the tubing itself needs
to
be exposed to the solar radiation. Radiative energy transfer is much more
effective
than convective in this situation.

I did a similar system on my restaurant's flat tar roof. I simply laid several
hundred feet of direct burial black PVC pipe directly onto the tar. I tried
industrial black garden hose before that but it wasn't sufficiently UV-resistant
to
last very long.

On bright sunny days, the water would almost boil. In all cases when the sun was
shining, this system made all the hot water the restaurant needed. There was a
NG-fired tankless heater for other times, of course. This system used no tank
and no
fancy plumbing. City water went in one end of the tubing and hot water came out
the
other. A three-way valve let me quickly switch the solar heater in and out as
needed. All manual control which was good enough.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
I don't speak Stupid so do speak slowly.


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