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Uninterruptible Power Supply question <aemeijers 02-25-2007
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Posted by Art Todesco on February 26, 2007, 12:44 pm


Bennett Price wrote:
>
>
> Art Todesco wrote:
>> mm wrote:
>>>
>>>> I know this isn't exactly OT for this group, but I couldn't find
>>>> anything in the comp.* tree that looked right.
>>>>
>>>> I have 2 MGE UPS systems Pulsar 14+, that have been sitting around
>>>> unused for a year. (Long story about life getting in the way...)
>>>> When last used, they lit up and took a charge fine. I pulled them
>>>> out today, now that I finally cleaned out and rearranged my computer
>>>> work area, and wanted to put them back in service. Nada- no lights,
>>>> no noise, no nothing. I expected the
>>>
>>> What bob siaid. But while I'm here, every such thing I know should
>>> work somewwhat or maybe well without batteries if you have AC. I
>>> don't think this will help, but disconnect the batteries altogether
>>> and see if all but one light lights. If not, start iwth the basics,
>>> the cord, the switch, looking for damage on the circuit board.
>>>
>>> Maybe check the lights too. Maybe they share a common ground that is
>>> bad.
>>>
>>> And check the output. Maybe you do have 110 coming out of it.
>>>
>>>> batteries to be flat, but the light for the incoming wall power
>>>> doesn't even come on.
>>>>
>>>> Anybody out there (Jeff W.?) have any idea what is going on? These
>>>> are from a garage sale, so no docs. I looked on vendor web page, but
>>>> didn't find anything about dying in storage. Did the batteries (gel
>>>> packs, like a fire escape light?) crap out completely? They were
>>>> never dropped, never frozen, etc. Any point in trying to repair or
>>>> replace the battery packs? Or are new ones so cheap it isn't worth
>>>> the bother? And just how do I get rid of these, if they are junk?
>>>>
>>>> aem sends....
>> Just an add, some UPSs completely shut done with bad or no batteries.
>> The
>> one right in front of me does that. I don't remember if the power
>> lights worked
>> or not with bad batteries, but I know the computer did not get any power.
>
> And to add to the above, if the batteries were sitting around for a year
> w/o charge, (and were old to begin with), they are probably completely
> dead. If they are 12 volts, you could take your car battery out and
> temporarily hook it up to the UPS to see if it would work. Or string
> together a bunch of flashlight batteries, preferably rechargeable.
And to add to the add, many UPSs use 2
12 volt batteries in series, so
you might need 24 volts.

AppliancePartsPros.com, Inc.
Posted by Malcolm Hoar on February 26, 2007, 12:45 pm



>And to add to the above, if the batteries were sitting around for a year
>w/o charge, (and were old to begin with), they are probably completely
>dead.

That is indeed possible if not likely.

>If they are 12 volts, you could take your car battery out and
>temporarily hook it up to the UPS to see if it would work. Or string
>together a bunch of flashlight batteries, preferably rechargeable.

Please do NOT try this unless you really know what you're
doing. And if you really knew what you were doing, you'd
know enough not to do this.

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| malch@malch.com Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Posted by Malcolm Hoar on February 26, 2007, 3:11 pm


>On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 17:45:22 GMT, malch@malch.com (Malcolm Hoar)
>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>>If they are 12 volts, you could take your car battery out and
>>>temporarily hook it up to the UPS to see if it would work. Or string
>>>together a bunch of flashlight batteries, preferably rechargeable.
>>
>>Please do NOT try this unless you really know what you're
>>doing. And if you really knew what you were doing, you'd
>>know enough not to do this.
>
>Which part, the car battery or the 8 flashlight batteries?

I wouldn't do either (and I'm an EE by training).

But especially don't mess with the car battery.

>And why shouldn't you do it?

1. A car battery contains a LOT of stored energy.
Those really thick cables attached to your car
battery are thick for a reason.

2. It's easy to release that energy very rapidly (e.g.
with a short).

3. The probabily of an accidental short is HUGELY
increased with quick and dirty temporary wiring.

4. In the event of a short, the resulting explosion
can cause concentrated acid to be sprayed all over
the area as well as globs of molten copper and more.
Trust me, you don't want to be near by.

It's about as dangerous as fooling around with a
chain saw except that the dangers are a lot less
obvious to a casual observer.

>What would you have to know to know what you're doing?

Don't connect large capacity batteries (esp. lead acid)
using anything except properly rated cables and connectors/
terminations.

In the case of a UPS, the said applicance is simultaneously
connected to the utility power creating even more scope
for accidents. A broken UPS is by definition umm, broken,
increasing the risks still further since it may do things
that are unpredicable and out-of-spec.

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| malch@malch.com Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Posted by mm on February 26, 2007, 10:47 pm


On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 20:11:53 GMT, malch@malch.com (Malcolm Hoar)
wrote:

>>On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 17:45:22 GMT, malch@malch.com (Malcolm Hoar)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>If they are 12 volts, you could take your car battery out and
>>>>temporarily hook it up to the UPS to see if it would work. Or string
>>>>together a bunch of flashlight batteries, preferably rechargeable.
>>>
>>>Please do NOT try this unless you really know what you're
>>>doing. And if you really knew what you were doing, you'd
>>>know enough not to do this.
>>
>>Which part, the car battery or the 8 flashlight batteries?
>
>I wouldn't do either (and I'm an EE by training).
>
>But especially don't mess with the car battery.
>
>>And why shouldn't you do it?
>
>1. A car battery contains a LOT of stored energy.
> Those really thick cables attached to your car
> battery are thick for a reason.
>
>2. It's easy to release that energy very rapidly (e.g.
> with a short).
>
>3. The probabily of an accidental short is HUGELY
> increased with quick and dirty temporary wiring.
>
>4. In the event of a short, the resulting explosion
> can cause concentrated acid to be sprayed all over
> the area as well as globs of molten copper and more.
> Trust me, you don't want to be near by.
>
>It's about as dangerous as fooling around with a
>chain saw except that the dangers are a lot less
>obvious to a casual observer.
>
>>What would you have to know to know what you're doing?
>
>Don't connect large capacity batteries (esp. lead acid)
>using anything except properly rated cables and connectors/
>terminations.
>
>In the case of a UPS, the said applicance is simultaneously
>connected to the utility power creating even more scope
>for accidents. A broken UPS is by definition umm, broken,
>increasing the risks still further since it may do things
>that are unpredicable and out-of-spec.

Thanks for the detailed answer. I see what you mean.

Posted by N8N on February 26, 2007, 4:19 pm


wrote:
> Art Todesco wrote:
> > mm wrote:
>
> >>> I know this isn't exactly OT for this group, but I couldn't find
> >>> anything in the comp.* tree that looked right.
>
> >>> I have 2 MGE UPS systems Pulsar 14+, that have been sitting around
> >>> unused for a year. (Long story about life getting in the way...) When
> >>> last used, they lit up and took a charge fine. I pulled them out
> >>> today, now that I finally cleaned out and rearranged my computer work
> >>> area, and wanted to put them back in service. Nada- no lights, no
> >>> noise, no nothing. I expected the
>
> >> What bob siaid. But while I'm here, every such thing I know should
> >> work somewwhat or maybe well without batteries if you have AC. I
> >> don't think this will help, but disconnect the batteries altogether
> >> and see if all but one light lights. If not, start iwth the basics,
> >> the cord, the switch, looking for damage on the circuit board.
>
> >> Maybe check the lights too. Maybe they share a common ground that is
> >> bad.
>
> >> And check the output. Maybe you do have 110 coming out of it.
>
> >>> batteries to be flat, but the light for the incoming wall power
> >>> doesn't even come on.
>
> >>> Anybody out there (Jeff W.?) have any idea what is going on? These
> >>> are from a garage sale, so no docs. I looked on vendor web page, but
> >>> didn't find anything about dying in storage. Did the batteries (gel
> >>> packs, like a fire escape light?) crap out completely? They were
> >>> never dropped, never frozen, etc. Any point in trying to repair or
> >>> replace the battery packs? Or are new ones so cheap it isn't worth
> >>> the bother? And just how do I get rid of these, if they are junk?
>
> >>> aem sends....
> > Just an add, some UPSs completely shut done with bad or no batteries. The
> > one right in front of me does that. I don't remember if the power
> > lights worked
> > or not with bad batteries, but I know the computer did not get any power.
>
> And to add to the above, if the batteries were sitting around for a year
> w/o charge, (and were old to begin with), they are probably completely
> dead. If they are 12 volts, you could take your car battery out and
> temporarily hook it up to the UPS to see if it would work. Or string
> together a bunch of flashlight batteries, preferably rechargeable

Easier and probably safer would be to simply buy a replacement
battery. If you have an ADI or similar store nearby, the batteries
used by a UPS are the same as the batteries used for emergency lights,
fire alarm panels, etc. - just match chemistry (likely sealed lead-
acid) voltage and amp-hour rating. take the old one(s) with you. I
am currently using a really old APC UPS to back up my cable modem (I
use a laptop) that I scavenged out of a junk pile; the only thing
really wrong with it was a dead battery which I matched up exactly to
a fire alarm battery which is in it to this day.

nate


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