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Uninterruptible Power Supply question

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Uninterruptible Power Supply question <aemeijers 02-25-2007
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Posted by hallerb@aol.com on February 26, 2007, 4:54 pm


> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Art Todesco wrote:
> > > mm wrote:
>
> > >>> I know this isn't exactly OT for this group, but I couldn't find
> > >>> anything in the comp.* tree that looked right.
>
> > >>> I have 2 MGE UPS systems Pulsar 14+, that have been sitting around
> > >>> unused for a year. (Long story about life getting in the way...) Wh=
en
> > >>> last used, they lit up and took a charge fine. I pulled them out
> > >>> today, now that I finally cleaned out and rearranged my computer wo=
rk
> > >>> area, and wanted to put them back in service. Nada- no lights, no
> > >>> noise, no nothing. I expected the
>
> > >> What bob siaid. =A0But while I'm here, every such thing I know should
> > >> work somewwhat or maybe well without batteries if you have AC. =A0I
> > >> don't think this will help, but disconnect the batteries altogether
> > >> and see if all but one light lights. =A0If not, start iwth the basic=
s,
> > >> the cord, the switch, looking for damage on the circuit board.
>
> > >> Maybe check the lights too. Maybe they share a common ground that is
> > >> bad.
>
> > >> And check the output. Maybe you do have 110 coming out of it.
>
> > >>> batteries to be flat, but the light for the incoming wall power
> > >>> doesn't even come on.
>
> > >>> Anybody out there (Jeff W.?) have any idea what is going on? These
> > >>> are from a garage sale, so no docs. I looked on vendor web page, but
> > >>> didn't find anything about dying in storage. Did the batteries (gel
> > >>> packs, like a fire escape light?) crap out completely? They were
> > >>> never dropped, never frozen, etc. Any point in trying to repair or
> > >>> replace the battery packs? Or are new ones so cheap it isn't worth
> > >>> the bother? And just how do I get rid of these, if they are junk?
>
> > >>> aem sends....
> > > Just an add, some UPSs completely shut done with bad or no batteries.=
=A0The
> > > one right in front of me does that. =A0I don't remember if the power
> > > lights worked
> > > or not with bad batteries, but I know the computer did not get any po=
wer.
>
> > And to add to the above, if the batteries were sitting around for a year
> > w/o charge, (and were old to begin with), they are probably completely
> > dead. =A0If they are 12 volts, you could take your car battery out and
> > temporarily hook it up to the UPS to see if it would work. =A0Or string
> > together a bunch of flashlight batteries, preferably rechargeable
>
> Easier and probably safer would be to simply buy a replacement
> battery. =A0If you have an ADI or similar store nearby, the batteries
> used by a UPS are the same as the batteries used for emergency lights,
> fire alarm panels, etc. - just match chemistry (likely sealed lead-
> acid) voltage and amp-hour rating. =A0take the old one(s) with you. =A0I
> am currently using a really old APC UPS to back up my cable modem (I
> use a laptop) that I scavenged out of a junk pile; the only thing
> really wrong with it was a dead battery which I matched up exactly to
> a fire alarm battery which is in it to this day.
>
> nate- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

New batteries cost nearly as much as a brand new comperable sized UPS.

IF one decides to use a car battery at least install a fuse, small
amperage to protect things if you screw up.


PexSupply QuikTrak 468x60
Posted by on February 26, 2007, 6:13 pm



> wrote:
>
>
>
(Long thread of helpful hints snipped)

Thanks, guys. Don't worry, I realize I'm not an EE (though I do have access
to one), so no dangerous acid-based homebrew kludges. I am 99% certain there
is no mechanical faults in the circuits, since the units worked when stored
away, and the odds of the same fault in 2 units not in use is slim to none.

My first thought was that the sealed batteries crapped out, and several of
you seem to support that. No time this month, but when I get a slow day,
I'll open the units up, using the instructions from vendor website, and see
if any of the supply houses in town have drop-in replacements for less than
half what it would cost to get new UPS units from Sam's Club or mail order.

Based on prior experience in my day and side jobs, I predict these are 'not
economical to repair, based on expected remaining lifespan'. So one question
remains- how do I legally get rid of old ones? 'Free' pile in spring garage
sale? Keep watching ad paper for county HazMat day?

aem sends....




Posted by Malcolm Hoar on February 26, 2007, 6:38 pm


>Based on prior experience in my day and side jobs, I predict these are 'not
>economical to repair, based on expected remaining lifespan'. So one question
>remains- how do I legally get rid of old ones? 'Free' pile in spring garage
>sale? Keep watching ad paper for county HazMat day?

I replaced the battery on my APC UPS. I don't recall
the exact costs but it was certainly economical. APC
sent me the new battery and a prepaid shipping label
to return the old one (for which they offered a credit
I think).

As for disposal... it almost certainly depends on your
location. Around here (San Francisco Bay Area) car
batteries can be dropped off at various locations.
Last time I needed to do that, Kragen Auto Parts
accepted them for recycling. I suspect they will take
units from a UPS too.

Otherwise, call your local garbage company, city or
county offices. In my experience, they'll quickly
tell you how to correctly dispose of just about
anything. Actually, I sometimes think that's the
only thing they're any good at -- they've never
been much help to me with anything else ;-)

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| malch@malch.com Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Posted by mm on February 26, 2007, 9:17 pm



>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>(Long thread of helpful hints snipped)
>
>Thanks, guys. Don't worry, I realize I'm not an EE (though I do have access
>to one), so no dangerous acid-based homebrew kludges. I am 99% certain there
>is no mechanical faults in the circuits, since the units worked when stored
>away, and the odds of the same fault in 2 units not in use is slim to none.
>
>My first thought was that the sealed batteries crapped out, and several of
>you seem to support that. No time this month, but when I get a slow day,
>I'll open the units up, using the instructions from vendor website, and see
>if any of the supply houses in town have drop-in replacements for less than
>half what it would cost to get new UPS units from Sam's Club or mail order.

Measure the voltage on the current ones before buying new. Even on
the UPSes that don't work without batteries there must be a lower
voltage limit for them not to work.

>Based on prior experience in my day and side jobs, I predict these are 'not
>economical to repair, based on expected remaining lifespan'. So one question
>remains- how do I legally get rid of old ones? 'Free' pile in spring garage
>sale? Keep watching ad paper for county HazMat day?

Baltimore County has four places, one of which takes batteries. In
addition the junk yard I go to most often takes batteries, maight even
pay a bit for them (I didn't ask) and I would think most junk yards
reccyle car batteries as well as these.

But I don't believe at the right store the price of baytteries is
alsway close to the price of a USP. Prices vary widely on the net, for
example.\

The size is in the url. None of this is more than 20 including
shipping. I havent' dealt with him but the vendor has 2400 sales and
a 100% positive rating, over 4 years Except one of the four doesn't
give shipping costs. Shipping is half for items after the first one..
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-12V-4-5AH-Emergency-Lighting-Light-Battery_W0QQitemZ110066272664QQihZ001QQcategoryZ11896QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-12V-8AH-Emergency-Lighting-Light-Battery_W0QQitemZ110066273875QQihZ001QQcategoryZ11896QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-6V-4AH-Emergency-Lighting-Light-Battery_W0QQitemZ110066269651QQihZ001QQcategoryZ11896QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/6V-4AH-Battery-For-Alarm-Emergency-Lighting-Remote-Car_W0QQitemZ110096499755QQihZ001QQcategoryZ11896QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
8AH
>aem sends....
>
>


Posted by dreamchaser on February 26, 2007, 10:46 pm


Agree with measuring the voltage first. Heck, the voltage is going to
be low. Why not just determine what the battery voltage is supposed to
be and if it's 12 volts, put each battery on a car battery charger for
a few days. Check the voltage, did it go to 12 or more? If so, put
them in and see if the ups will come up.

I'm only familiar with commercial large scale UPS's, know nothing
about these little guys. What happens with these little UPS systems
when the battery voltage gets low after a power outage? Do they just
shut off, switch to raw power or what? Your system may just be
experiencing what it thinks is a low battery condition and it does
make sense that the circuitry would be such that if there was no
battery voltage, the unit isn't going to do anything but shutdown. It
also may require some battery voltage to even turn on.

Consider the car battery charger idea just to see if the batteries
will take a charge then try them.

The stored energy in a car battery is much greater then the 60ah
mentioned, go by cold cranking amps and your are looking at 500 plus
amps of power instantaneous. If you are the adventurous type, put the
daggone ups in the driveway, run a couple number 10 gauge wires to the
ups, run a 100 foot power cord to the ups leaving it unplugged from
the house or garage, plug it into the UPS, and then go back and plug
it into the garage or house. Get your binoculars and try to see if any
lights are on on the UPS. Also maybe consider waiting until night time
to do this just to get the benefit of any short circuit there is, or
July 4th. Sorry, just having a little fun but not serious, best to
play it safe.


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