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Who has a security system and dialup? Terry 03-30-2007
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Posted by Terry on March 30, 2007, 11:34 pm


When my sister first got a computer her speeds were in the 40s.

Somewhere down the road she now only gets about 20k.

She was having trouble with one of her phones. I looked in her phone
box and the security people had put their lines on the main and the
extensions on their other pair.

Her phone problems turned out to be an inside phone. I am not sure
when her speeds slowed as it could have happened over the past 5 years
or so.

Has anyone confirmed that having a security system in the phone loop
slows dial up?

Posted by mm on March 30, 2007, 11:54 pm


wrote:

>When my sister first got a computer her speeds were in the 40s.
>
>Somewhere down the road she now only gets about 20k.
>
>She was having trouble with one of her phones. I looked in her phone
>box and the security people had put their lines on the main and the
>extensions on their other pair.
>
>Her phone problems turned out to be an inside phone. I am not sure
>when her speeds slowed as it could have happened over the past 5 years
>or so.
>
>Has anyone confirmed that having a security system in the phone loop
>slows dial up?

Within the next month, I'll have what you say.

I sort of doubt this is the problem****, but when I've had speed
problems, I've routed the line straight from the nid to the computer,
and from there to everywher else. That didn't really help either, but
I knew I had done what I could.

If you want to check, bypass the connection with the burglar alarm.

The best way to do this if you have a NID, a network interface device,
outside your house, is probably to get some phone wire with modular
plugs on each end, and run the wire from her modem to the NID. (You
have to unplug the house to do this) You can go through the hall and
out the window. See what kind of speeds you get. If you want to do
this for an extended period, take the second jack of the modem and use
another wire to plug that in to the place the modem is plugged into
now. Then the rest of the phones in your house will work, except
probably not the burglar alarm connection. But her alarm is probably
not armed when people are home, anyhow.

If you want to keep the alarm in the circuit, for extended testing,
you'll need to reverse two pairs of two wires each. So that when the
alarm siezes the line, it will sieze the wires in the house (that go
to the computer and then to the NID) instead of the wires that go
directly to the NID, which are no longer conected to anything.

The major reason the alarm siezes the line is so the burglar can't
interfere with the dialing (the touch-toning) by picking up the first
phone he sees and pushing extra buttons. But I don't think many
burglars bother to do that (anyone know?), and you're not likely to
get burlarized during this modem speed testing period anyhow. Plus I
have a siren.

So the alarm will still work in every other way even if it doesn't
sieze the line, if you reverse the in and out You could do this at
the alarm control panel, or at the 2x2 telephone outlet the alarm is
plugged into that I explain below.

I know I'm not always clear, so if any of this is confusing, please
ask.

The second way to bypass the alarm, only bypasses that and not the
rest of hthe house, but doesn't require there to be a NID outside.

2) My alarm, which I am installing myself, has four phone connections,
two in and two out, and is intended to use standard four-conductor
indoor phone wire, with a modular plug on the other end. The modular
plug is intended to plug into a standard phone jack (at least that is
what I'll be using) but one that is wired differently from an
extension phone. This one instead has two wires (in the same sheath)
from the line from the phone company, and two wires that go to the
rest of your house.

So all you have to do is, not at the burlar alarm panel but at that
2x2 inch box, either use 2 wires with alligator clips on each end, and
clip them from red to red and from green to green.

(You could do this at the burglar alarm panel too. although there
might not be any stripped wire showing.)

Or you can take one of each color off, and put it on the very same
screw as the one of the same color.

(The colors won't be like this at the control panel)

This box should have two phone wires coming in, and the red and greeen
of one wire connected to the red and green screws of the box (by which
I mean, the screws are all the same color but they have different
color little internal wires connected to them. They may also have an
R and G embossed in the plastic.) And the red and green of the other
wire is connected to the black and yellow screws of the box. That way
all four wires go to your burglar alarm which will just pass them
through to each other normally, but will intercept the phone line when
there is an alarm and it wants to call the central station. IF this
box doesn't have two reds and two greens, post back with more details.



****Without having my burlar alarm connected to the phone, I've had a
lot of variation in connection speed. When I first got a faster CPU
etc., the speeds went up a lot, and I tried to figure out what that
had to do with it. But they went down again.

For a ahile they were down, and I thought it was because the telephone
pole broke in a storm, and my phone line, and the other 100 in the
n'hood were lying in a stream. But they lay there for almost 3 years
and in the middle of all that, the speeds went up again. When they
actually took it out of the stream, the rate didn't change. And all
the phones worked fine for conversation during the 3 years.

I've found the best thing with dialup is to read my mail and my news
while webpages are downloading.

Also, see if your isp has a download accelerator. They really work.
The company I use give one out for free.

And YouTube and the new version of Real Player work darn well, even
without high speed. Find the link, click on play, then click on
pause, and the download will continue while you eat dinner if
necessary. (Videos are pretty long) There are two indicators, one
that says how far the user has listened or watched, and another that
says how far the download has progressed. You can wait until the
download finishes, then back up if necessary** and play the thing from
the start, with no download wait time. **Sometimes I'm only one
seconn in.

I've also been able to listen live to Web radio with speeds as low as
32000. Although I think I haven't had speeds in the 20's for a long
time, and iirc it didn't work well then, but maybe it would now that I
have a 800MHz processor, still not fast as things go.

She should also read her news with a newsread, not via the web which
takes much more time, but I have a feeling she dodens't read news or
she would be asking hersself.


Also post to alt.security.alarms .

Posted by Milhouse Van Houten on March 31, 2007, 12:19 am


mm wrote:

>wrote:
>
>>When my sister first got a computer her speeds were in the 40s.
>>
>>Somewhere down the road she now only gets about 20k.
>>
>>She was having trouble with one of her phones. I looked in her phone
>>box and the security people had put their lines on the main and the
>>extensions on their other pair.
>>
>>Her phone problems turned out to be an inside phone. I am not sure
>>when her speeds slowed as it could have happened over the past 5 years
>>or so.
>>
>>Has anyone confirmed that having a security system in the phone loop
>>slows dial up?
>
>Within the next month, I'll have what you say.
>
>I sort of doubt this is the problem****, but when I've had speed
>problems, I've routed the line straight from the nid to the computer,
>and from there to everywher else. That didn't really help either, but
>I knew I had done what I could.
>
>If you want to check, bypass the connection with the burglar alarm.
>
>The best way to do this if you have a NID, a network interface device,
>outside your house, is probably to get some phone wire with modular
>plugs on each end, and run the wire from her modem to the NID. (You
>have to unplug the house to do this) You can go through the hall and
>out the window. See what kind of speeds you get.

Agreed.. So far..


> If you want to do
>this for an extended period, take the second jack of the modem and use
>another wire to plug that in to the place the modem is plugged into
>now. Then the rest of the phones in your house will work, except
>probably not the burglar alarm connection. But her alarm is probably
>not armed when people are home, anyhow.

Nope, that will effectively send the phone voltage back to the
customer side of the NID, which is now completely isolated because the
small jumper cord from the Telco side to the Customer side in the NID
is.

I think you meant to say run the 2nd jumper from the "phone out" of
the modem to the NID "in", the jack that was unplugged (the small
jumper inside the NID). Which will effectively make the modem the
seizure device.



>
>If you want to keep the alarm in the circuit, for extended testing,
>you'll need to reverse two pairs of two wires each. So that when the
>alarm siezes the line, it will sieze the wires in the house (that go
>to the computer and then to the NID) instead of the wires that go
>directly to the NID, which are no longer conected to anything.

Nope.. don't do that of all the other house phones are gone.


>
>The major reason the alarm siezes the line is so the burglar can't
>interfere with the dialing (the touch-toning) by picking up the first
>phone he sees and pushing extra buttons. But I don't think many
>burglars bother to do that (anyone know?), and you're not likely to
>get burlarized during this modem speed testing period anyhow. Plus I
>have a siren.

That's true.



>So the alarm will still work in every other way even if it doesn't
>sieze the line, if you reverse the in and out You could do this at
>the alarm control panel, or at the 2x2 telephone outlet the alarm is
>plugged into that I explain below.
>
>I know I'm not always clear, so if any of this is confusing, please
>ask.
>

Iv 'e been an alarm tech for 16 years and your explanation *is*
confusing - not because I don't understand in-house wiring better than
the phone man, but because I had to decipher your instructions. <G>

>The second way to bypass the alarm, only bypasses that and not the
>rest of hthe house, but doesn't require there to be a NID outside.
>
>2) My alarm, which I am installing myself, has four phone connections,
>two in and two out, and is intended to use standard four-conductor
>indoor phone wire, with a modular plug on the other end. The modular
>plug is intended to plug into a standard phone jack (at least that is
>what I'll be using) but one that is wired differently from an
>extension phone. This one instead has two wires (in the same sheath)
>from the line from the phone company, and two wires that go to the
>rest of your house.


It's NOT a standard jack - It's an RJ-31x. It has shorting pins
inside, so when the cord gets disconnected the shorting pins allow the
phone voltage to go back out to the NID - (when it's plugged in the
panel's relay does it)


>
>So all you have to do is, not at the burlar alarm panel but at that
>2x2 inch box, either use 2 wires with alligator clips on each end, and
>clip them from red to red and from green to green.

Inside the RJ-31x the colors are <green/red> to street, <gray/brown>
to house phones.

This is NOT a standard jack by any means.. If you look inside one
there are 4 more connections - they are for tampers.




>(You could do this at the burglar alarm panel too. although there
>might not be any stripped wire showing.)
>
>Or you can take one of each color off, and put it on the very same
>screw as the one of the same color.
>
>(The colors won't be like this at the control panel)
>\


True.. He would put blue to orange and blue/wht to orange/wht

>This box should have two phone wires coming in, and the red and greeen
>of one wire connected to the red and green screws of the box (by which
>I mean, the screws are all the same color but they have different
>color little internal wires connected to them. They may also have an
>R and G embossed in the plastic.) And the red and green of the other
>wire is connected to the black and yellow screws of the box. That way
>all four wires go to your burglar alarm which will just pass them
>through to each other normally, but will intercept the phone line when
>there is an alarm and it wants to call the central station. IF this
>box doesn't have two reds and two greens, post back with more details.

<sigh>


<snip>
>
>
>Also post to alt.security.alarms .


Please do....

x-posted




Posted by Roland Moore on March 31, 2007, 12:45 am


>>When my sister first got a computer her speeds were in the 40s.
>>
>>Somewhere down the road she now only gets about 20k.

No real mystery. Sounds like a dial up connection where the phone company
has used line doubling. It's legal but it takes the speed down to lower 20's
for certain. A normal alarm panel with proper phone jack terminations won't
change dial up connection speeds much.

> mm wrote:
>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>When my sister first got a computer her speeds were in the 40s.
>>>
>>>Somewhere down the road she now only gets about 20k.
>>>
>>>She was having trouble with one of her phones. I looked in her phone
>>>box and the security people had put their lines on the main and the
>>>extensions on their other pair.
>>>
>>>Her phone problems turned out to be an inside phone. I am not sure
>>>when her speeds slowed as it could have happened over the past 5 years
>>>or so.
>>>
>>>Has anyone confirmed that having a security system in the phone loop
>>>slows dial up?
>>
>>Within the next month, I'll have what you say.
>>
>>I sort of doubt this is the problem****, but when I've had speed
>>problems, I've routed the line straight from the nid to the computer,
>>and from there to everywher else. That didn't really help either, but
>>I knew I had done what I could.
>>
>>If you want to check, bypass the connection with the burglar alarm.
>>
>>The best way to do this if you have a NID, a network interface device,
>>outside your house, is probably to get some phone wire with modular
>>plugs on each end, and run the wire from her modem to the NID. (You
>>have to unplug the house to do this) You can go through the hall and
>>out the window. See what kind of speeds you get.
>
> Agreed.. So far..
>
>
>> If you want to do
>>this for an extended period, take the second jack of the modem and use
>>another wire to plug that in to the place the modem is plugged into
>>now. Then the rest of the phones in your house will work, except
>>probably not the burglar alarm connection. But her alarm is probably
>>not armed when people are home, anyhow.
>
> Nope, that will effectively send the phone voltage back to the
> customer side of the NID, which is now completely isolated because the
> small jumper cord from the Telco side to the Customer side in the NID
> is.
>
> I think you meant to say run the 2nd jumper from the "phone out" of
> the modem to the NID "in", the jack that was unplugged (the small
> jumper inside the NID). Which will effectively make the modem the
> seizure device.
>
>
>
>>
>>If you want to keep the alarm in the circuit, for extended testing,
>>you'll need to reverse two pairs of two wires each. So that when the
>>alarm siezes the line, it will sieze the wires in the house (that go
>>to the computer and then to the NID) instead of the wires that go
>>directly to the NID, which are no longer conected to anything.
>
> Nope.. don't do that of all the other house phones are gone.
>
>
>>
>>The major reason the alarm siezes the line is so the burglar can't
>>interfere with the dialing (the touch-toning) by picking up the first
>>phone he sees and pushing extra buttons. But I don't think many
>>burglars bother to do that (anyone know?), and you're not likely to
>>get burlarized during this modem speed testing period anyhow. Plus I
>>have a siren.
>
> That's true.
>
>
>
>>So the alarm will still work in every other way even if it doesn't
>>sieze the line, if you reverse the in and out You could do this at
>>the alarm control panel, or at the 2x2 telephone outlet the alarm is
>>plugged into that I explain below.
>>
>>I know I'm not always clear, so if any of this is confusing, please
>>ask.
>>
>
> Iv 'e been an alarm tech for 16 years and your explanation *is*
> confusing - not because I don't understand in-house wiring better than
> the phone man, but because I had to decipher your instructions. <G>
>
>>The second way to bypass the alarm, only bypasses that and not the
>>rest of hthe house, but doesn't require there to be a NID outside.
>>
>>2) My alarm, which I am installing myself, has four phone connections,
>>two in and two out, and is intended to use standard four-conductor
>>indoor phone wire, with a modular plug on the other end. The modular
>>plug is intended to plug into a standard phone jack (at least that is
>>what I'll be using) but one that is wired differently from an
>>extension phone. This one instead has two wires (in the same sheath)
>>from the line from the phone company, and two wires that go to the
>>rest of your house.
>
>
> It's NOT a standard jack - It's an RJ-31x. It has shorting pins
> inside, so when the cord gets disconnected the shorting pins allow the
> phone voltage to go back out to the NID - (when it's plugged in the
> panel's relay does it)
>
>
>>
>>So all you have to do is, not at the burlar alarm panel but at that
>>2x2 inch box, either use 2 wires with alligator clips on each end, and
>>clip them from red to red and from green to green.
>
> Inside the RJ-31x the colors are <green/red> to street, <gray/brown>
> to house phones.
>
> This is NOT a standard jack by any means.. If you look inside one
> there are 4 more connections - they are for tampers.
>
>
>
>
>>(You could do this at the burglar alarm panel too. although there
>>might not be any stripped wire showing.)
>>
>>Or you can take one of each color off, and put it on the very same
>>screw as the one of the same color.
>>
>>(The colors won't be like this at the control panel)
>>\
>
>
> True.. He would put blue to orange and blue/wht to orange/wht
>
>>This box should have two phone wires coming in, and the red and greeen
>>of one wire connected to the red and green screws of the box (by which
>>I mean, the screws are all the same color but they have different
>>color little internal wires connected to them. They may also have an
>>R and G embossed in the plastic.) And the red and green of the other
>>wire is connected to the black and yellow screws of the box. That way
>>all four wires go to your burglar alarm which will just pass them
>>through to each other normally, but will intercept the phone line when
>>there is an alarm and it wants to call the central station. IF this
>>box doesn't have two reds and two greens, post back with more details.
>
> <sigh>
>
>
> <snip>
>>
>>
>>Also post to alt.security.alarms .
>
>
> Please do....
>
> x-posted
>
>
>



Posted by mm on March 31, 2007, 1:27 am


On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 23:19:00 -0500, Milhouse Van Houten

>mm wrote:
>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>When my sister first got a computer her speeds were in the 40s.
>>>
>>>Somewhere down the road she now only gets about 20k.
>>>
>>>She was having trouble with one of her phones. I looked in her phone
>>>box and the security people had put their lines on the main and the
>>>extensions on their other pair.
>>>
>>>Her phone problems turned out to be an inside phone. I am not sure
>>>when her speeds slowed as it could have happened over the past 5 years
>>>or so.
>>>
>>>Has anyone confirmed that having a security system in the phone loop
>>>slows dial up?
>>
>>Within the next month, I'll have what you say.
>>
>>I sort of doubt this is the problem****, but when I've had speed
>>problems, I've routed the line straight from the nid to the computer,
>>and from there to everywher else. That didn't really help either, but
>>I knew I had done what I could.
>>
>>If you want to check, bypass the connection with the burglar alarm.
>>
>>The best way to do this if you have a NID, a network interface device,
>>outside your house, is probably to get some phone wire with modular
>>plugs on each end, and run the wire from her modem to the NID. (You
------------------------------------------
>>have to unplug the house to do this) You can go through the hall and
>>out the window. See what kind of speeds you get.
>
>Agreed.. So far..
>
>
>> If you want to do
>>this for an extended period, take the second jack of the modem and use
>>another wire to plug that in to the place the modem is plugged into
>>now. Then the rest of the phones in your house will work, except
>>probably not the burglar alarm connection. But her alarm is probably
>>not armed when people are home, anyhow.
>
>Nope, that will effectively send the phone voltage back to the
>customer side of the NID, which is now completely isolated because the
>small jumper cord from the Telco side to the Customer side in the NID
>is.

Yes, maybe I wasn't clear. The customer side of the NID is only
connected to the house, because the small jumper cord in the nid is
disconnected from the telco side.

That wire is out, but the long wire from her modem to the NID is
plugged into the Telco side.

BTW, OP, if you don't have a NID, at least with Verizon in Maryland,
they'll install one for you for free. I guess in the long run, they
think this will save them money. IIRC, they didn't have to come into
the house to do this and I didn't have to be home.

>I think you meant to say run the 2nd jumper from the "phone out" of

Not really. :) I can't keep track of what they call these things, so
I figured he would have to do some of the work himself.

I called it the second jack because it wasn't the one he should have
used in the first stage. I figured he knew how to connect the modem,
and I figured for the first connection he would use the same jack
which is now plugged into the wall or the surge surpressor.

>the modem to the NID "in", the jack that was unplugged (the small
>jumper inside the NID).

At the NID end, I said he had to unplug the house, and I figured he
would take that to mean that he should plug in the new wire to the
same place. But shouldn't that wire come from the Line In jack on
the modem?

> Which will effectively make the modem the
>seizure device.

Yes.

Although I must have wired mine a bit differently, since I can pick up
any of my working phones and hear the internet noise. Since I got a
56K modem years ago, doing this no longer breaks my internet
connection, although sometimes I wish it did, so I could use the
phone. :) I guess I allowed one Y connector between the phone line
and the modem, and the other half of the Y goes to the rest of the
house.

>>If you want to keep the alarm in the circuit, for extended testing,
>>you'll need to reverse two pairs of two wires each. So that when the
>>alarm siezes the line, it will sieze the wires in the house (that go
>>to the computer and then to the NID) instead of the wires that go
>>directly to the NID, which are no longer conected to anything.
>
>Nope.. don't do that of all the other house phones are gone.

Why would that be? The wire from the burglar alarm jack goes to the
nid, but the short jumper in the nid is unplugged, so that has no
effect.

I'm assuming she's not connected to the ISP when she tries to use a
phone, so the modem hasn't siezed the line.

So all the phones in the house should work fine.

Again, I may not have been clear, but that's what I meant.

>>The major reason the alarm siezes the line is so the burglar can't
>>interfere with the dialing (the touch-toning) by picking up the first
>>phone he sees and pushing extra buttons. But I don't think many
>>burglars bother to do that (anyone know?), and you're not likely to
>>get burlarized during this modem speed testing period anyhow. Plus I
>>have a siren.
>
>That's true.
>>
>>So the alarm will still work in every other way even if it doesn't
>>sieze the line, if you reverse the in and out You could do this at
>>the alarm control panel, or at the 2x2 telephone outlet the alarm is
>>plugged into that I explain below.
>>
>>I know I'm not always clear, so if any of this is confusing, please
>>ask.
>>
>
>Iv 'e been an alarm tech for 16 years and your explanation *is*
>confusing - not because I don't understand in-house wiring better than
>the phone man, but because I had to decipher your instructions. <G>

I'm sure. But with a post this long, which alrady took time, and the
chance the OP will go in an entirely different direction, and the
ability for him to ask questions, I don't want to spend the extra time
rewriting.

Let him spend the extra time rereading. In the long run that will be
helpful to him. :)

>>The second way to bypass the alarm, only bypasses that and not the
>>rest of hthe house, but doesn't require there to be a NID outside.
>>
>>2) My alarm, which I am installing myself, has four phone connections,
>>two in and two out, and is intended to use standard four-conductor
>>indoor phone wire, with a modular plug on the other end. The modular
>>plug is intended to plug into a standard phone jack (at least that is
>>what I'll be using) but one that is wired differently from an
>>extension phone. This one instead has two wires (in the same sheath)
>>from the line from the phone company, and two wires that go to the
>>rest of your house.
>
>It's NOT a standard jack - It's an RJ-31x. It has shorting pins
>inside, so when the cord gets disconnected the shorting pins allow the
>phone voltage to go back out to the NID - (when it's plugged in the
>panel's relay does it)

Thanks. Didn't know about those. Is that so someone in the house
won't accidentally unplug the alarm and defeat the phones? Since I'm
the only one that lives here, that's not a risk for me. Is there
another reason?

I'll remember about these jacks if I talk to others again.

Hmmm. If it has shorting pins, does that mean all he has to do is to
unplug the phone wire from the jack and that will be the same as
bypassing the burglar alarm? That would be really easy.

>>So all you have to do is, not at the burlar alarm panel but at that
>>2x2 inch box, either use 2 wires with alligator clips on each end, and
>>clip them from red to red and from green to green.
>
>Inside the RJ-31x the colors are <green/red> to street, <gray/brown>
>to house phones.
>
>This is NOT a standard jack by any means.. If you look inside one
>there are 4 more connections - they are for tampers.

>
>>(You could do this at the burglar alarm panel too. although there
>>might not be any stripped wire showing.)
>>
>>Or you can take one of each color off, and put it on the very same
>>screw as the one of the same color.
>>
>>(The colors won't be like this at the control panel)
>>\
>
>
>True.. He would put blue to orange and blue/wht to orange/wht
>
>>This box should have two phone wires coming in, and the red and greeen
>>of one wire connected to the red and green screws of the box (by which
>>I mean, the screws are all the same color but they have different
>>color little internal wires connected to them. They may also have an
>>R and G embossed in the plastic.) And the red and green of the other
>>wire is connected to the black and yellow screws of the box. That way
>>all four wires go to your burglar alarm which will just pass them
>>through to each other normally, but will intercept the phone line when
>>there is an alarm and it wants to call the central station. IF this
>>box doesn't have two reds and two greens, post back with more details.
>
><sigh>
>
>
><snip>
>>
>>
>>Also post to alt.security.alarms .
>
>
>Please do....
>
>x-posted
>
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