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Posted by w_tom on July 10, 2005, 1:30 pm
MOVs don't open the circuit. Even grossly undersized power
strips that have vaporized MOVs still connect an appliance to
AC mains. Where is this disconnection that Pop claims? It
does not exist.
A vaporized MOV operates outside of what the manufacturer
has intended and designed. Pop, if he had used facts rather
than post insults, would have first read those MOV datasheets
rather than learn from a BestBuy salesman.
Effective 'whole house' protectors install sufficient
joules. The owner never knows a surge exists AND the protector
remains functional. Power strips that are undersized will
vaporize leaving the appliance exposed to that surge. Then
the naive will recommend them and buy more useless protectors
at tens of times more money per protected appliance.
The naive will declare, "the protector sacrificed itself to
save my computer." Protection already inside the adjacent
computer saved that computer. The surge was too small to
overwhelm internal computer protection. But the same tiny
surge vaporized an undersized, overpriced, and ineffective
protector. Why put sufficient joules inside a protector when
less joules means Pop will recommend it?
If MOVs worked as Pop claims, then removed MOVs (same as
vaporized MOVs) would cause the power strip to stop working.
Reality: even the OK light remains illuminated after all MOVs
are removed:
http://www.zerosurge.com/HTML/movs.html
Why do power strips with vaporized MOVs still provide power?
Because they do not operate as Pop has posted.
Meanwhile code demands that all surge protectors not create
flames even if operated beyond its specs. Pop instead tells
us that "That surge ... was large enough to jump the gaps of
the MOVs once they opened up" Therefore a fire is
acceptable? When MOVs vaporize, the spark can continue
jumping across the vaporized MOV. That can mean fire. MOVs
are not designed to operate open circuited and are not
designed to vaporize. MOVs that vaporize - go open circuit -
can even create house fires. Why? Because the protectors was
so grossly undersized; too few joules.
Learn from what Rob Mills has posted. The last place you
want a grossly undersized power strip protector is on a desk
full of papers, in dust balls behind furniture, or on a rug.
Some pictures demonstrate the problem with grossly undersized
plug-in protectors:
http://www.westwhitelandfire.com/Articles/Surge%20Protectors.pdf
http://www.nmsu.edu/~safety/programs/gen_saf/surgeprotectorfire.htm
http://www.ddxg.net/old/surge_protectors.htm
http://www.ehs.washington.edu/LabSaf/surge.htm
http://www.cob.org/fire/safety/surge.htm
http://www.hanford.gov/lessons/sitell/ll00/2000-02.htm
And finally: http://www.rbs2.com/fire.htm
> A particularly horrifying fact is that many commercial surge
> suppressors in the USA put the thermal disconnector and
> varistor in series, so that — after the disconnector opens —
> the vulnerable equipment downstream from the suppressor is
> exposed to whatever voltage killed the varistor.
Funny. That is not how Pop said they work. Funny. Pop
would even call plug-in protector house fires acceptable when
the surge is too large. Funny. He is so knowledgeable that
he insults rather than provide numbers, science concepts, or
citations. Worry about those grossly undersized power strip
protectors as even Rob Mills demonstrates.
Pop wrote:
> ===> Undersized how? They're rated for x joules, more
> than that causes the MOVs to conduct, until they open
> the ckt. If you mean undersized to protect against
> monsrous surges, OF COURSE!! The sentence means
> nothing.
> ...
>
>> Rob Mills demonstrates, can even create a house fire.
> ===> NO surge protector can protect beyond the number
> of joules it's rated at, and it would very UNlikely to
> have started a fire if nothing else in the house was
> bothered. That surge, if it really happened, was large
> enough to jump the gaps of the MOVs once they opened
> up, and thus was capable of jumping many other gaps.
> Sometimes though, a protector CAN sacrifice itself for
> the equipment, which sounds like what happened, but ...
> it wouldn't have started a fire unless it was sitting
> inside a pile of tinder that sparks could have ignited.
> The plastic would nto have melted or other equipment
> would have been damaged. Black stuff only indicates
> spark, not flame.
> >
> > The effective protector earths a surge; and the
> > homeowner
> > never knows it happened.
> ===> No, protectors do much more than that; they are
> wye-connected varistors usually with inductive walls to
> keep the lines within safe ranges of each other whether
> it's earth or hot to neutral or ... and so on.
> >
> > Protectors that provides effective protection are
> > located
> > close to earth ground AND are properly sized.
> ===> What the hell do you mean by "properly sized"?
> And what the heck does "close to ground" mean anyway?
>
> You have no idea what you're talking about, do you?
>
> This is called
> > a 'whole house' protector. Where it is located? Not
> > on a
> > pile of papers on a desk, or behind the furniture, on
> > a rug,
> > or within dust balls. Just more reasons why plug-in
> > protectors (that cost so much money) are so
> > ineffective.
> ===> Wrong, proton breath; they are quite effective and
> useful and are recommended for very good reasons. I
> hope you aren't using any and that you shortly suffer
> several power and phone line lightning hits within 5
> miles of your home or less, preferably the transoformer
> you're fed from. You're a moron in this area.
> So, uhhh, just where is it located, by the way? Do
> you even know?
>
> Pop
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