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Whole house surge protector?

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Whole house surge protector? Patch 07-06-2005
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Posted by on July 12, 2005, 3:43 pm


On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 09:12:42 -0400, "CL (dnoyeB) Gilbert"

>...
>>
>> Effective protection is about earthing a transient before
>> that transient can overwhelm protection already inside an
>> appliance. That means earthing so that a transient does not
>> build a plasma wire inside the transformer. Once a
>> transformer's breakdown voltage is exceeded, a transformer no
>> longer mellows. And so we say, protection is only as
>> effective as its earth ground.
>>
>
>So you agree with me then?

I think that most of the posters here are right. Surge protection is
best done in layers of protection. It starts with the grounding
system, then the entry protectors, all tied to the ground system, then
protecting the equipment and all it's inputs to a common grounded
point, then protecting any interconnecting paths.
Where I live you can't have "too much" protection, but we have about
200 thunderstorms a year and I never unplug anything..


Electric Radiant Heat 468x60
Posted by clifto on July 24, 2005, 3:07 pm
w_tom wrote:
> Lightning is not an ideal voltage source. Lightning is a
> current source.

You lost me here. Lightning is electrostatically generated, no current
flows until the breakdown voltage of the insulating medium is exceeded.
I'm not arguing with you, I'm questioning; what is it that tells you
lightning is a current source? I'd call it a voltage source with a high
current capacity.

--
If John McCain gets the 2008 Republican Presidential nomination,
my vote for President will be a write-in for Jiang Zemin.

Posted by w_tom on July 24, 2005, 10:38 pm


Once the plasma 'wire' is constructed, then CG lightning
goes into the next phase which is to connect charges in a
cloud to charges located on earth. This discharge is a
current source. That means voltage will increase anywhere as
necessary to maintain that current flow. And that current
from is not DC electricity. It is AC current in numerous
frequencies.

But the important point is that lightning is a current
source. Give lightning excellent conductors and it will do no
damage - no high voltage. Further observations provided by
nm5k@wt.net entitled "lightning protection" in the
newsgroup rec.radio.amateur.antenna on 20 July 2005 at:
http://tinyurl.com/8kfnq

clifto wrote:
> w_tom wrote:
>> Lightning is not an ideal voltage source. Lightning is a
>> current source.
>
> You lost me here. Lightning is electrostatically generated, no current
> flows until the breakdown voltage of the insulating medium is exceeded.
> I'm not arguing with you, I'm questioning; what is it that tells you
> lightning is a current source? I'd call it a voltage source with a high
> current capacity.


Posted by CL (dnoyeB) Gilbert on July 24, 2005, 11:20 pm


w_tom wrote:
> Once the plasma 'wire' is constructed, then CG lightning
> goes into the next phase which is to connect charges in a
> cloud to charges located on earth. This discharge is a
> current source. That means voltage will increase anywhere as
> necessary to maintain that current flow. And that current
> from is not DC electricity. It is AC current in numerous
> frequencies.
>

Voltage can only increase as high as the original 'source' voltage. If
it were a so called, "current source" the voltage could increase
infinitely. But of course this voltage was created due to the flow of
electrons which can be considered a current.

Lets not argue about it because it will just get circular. Current
source, voltage source is all flakey talk. Its an energy source.



> But the important point is that lightning is a current
> source. Give lightning excellent conductors and it will do no
> damage - no high voltage. Further observations provided by
> nm5k@wt.net entitled "lightning protection" in the
> newsgroup rec.radio.amateur.antenna on 20 July 2005 at:
> http://tinyurl.com/8kfnq
>
> clifto wrote:
>
>>w_tom wrote:
>>
>>> Lightning is not an ideal voltage source. Lightning is a
>>>current source.
>>
>>You lost me here. Lightning is electrostatically generated, no current
>>flows until the breakdown voltage of the insulating medium is exceeded.
>>I'm not arguing with you, I'm questioning; what is it that tells you
>>lightning is a current source? I'd call it a voltage source with a high
>>current capacity.


--
Respectfully,


CL Gilbert


Posted by w_tom on July 25, 2005, 1:37 am


Current source and voltage source are electrical engineering
concepts we even use to describe power supplies. Obviously,
things within reality have limits. But voltage limits for
lightning are just too distant to be considered. Voltage down
here (which is our perspective) will increase seemingly
unlimited as necessary to make that current flow. Lightning
is the classic example of a current source. A concept so
important for understanding what protectors and protection are
and are not effective.

"CL (dnoyeB) Gilbert" wrote:
> Voltage can only increase as high as the original 'source' voltage. If
> it were a so called, "current source" the voltage could increase
> infinitely. But of course this voltage was created due to the flow of
> electrons which can be considered a current.
>
> Lets not argue about it because it will just get circular. Current
> source, voltage source is all flakey talk. Its an energy source.


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