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Whole house surge suppressor -- Tytewadd??

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Whole house surge suppressor -- Tytewadd?? dahinds 12-15-2006
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Posted by on December 15, 2006, 5:40 pm


We're moving into a house that has older two-wire ungrounded wiring.
Short of the expense of rewiring the entire house, I'd like to make it
as safe as possible for people and equipment. I've already put in GFCI
outlets in bathrooms, kitchen, garage, outdoor locations. So from a
people safety perspective I think that's about as good as we can do,
and grounding would not improve that situation.

Now for equipment, I'm thinking about a panel-based whole house surge
suppressor, since the lack of grounding will defeat any point-of-use
surge suppressors. There seem to be quite a few units available with
similar specs: clamping voltages in the 400-500V range, energy
dissipation on the order of 1000 joules, maximum current 50,000 amps,
<5 ns response. One example is the Intermatic 1G1240R. These seem to
generally be described as sufficient for protecting appliances but the
vendors still recommend point-of-use surge suppressors for electronic
equipment.

There is also a product sold by Tytewadd, which clamps at 130V, maximum
current 10,000 amps, and 1.5 ns response. It is specifically
advertised as protection for "sensitive equipment". But... it has a
total energy dissipation of only 70 joules, far far less than the
previous class of units.

Does anyone have experience with the Tytewadd devices? They're not
that cheap -- $150. I'm in a generally low-lightning-risk location
(Northern California, bay area) so maybe this kind of moderate
protection is sufficient. But 70 joules is less than the specs on a
rinky dink power strip. Should I save my money, ask an electrician to
rewire a couple outlets in key locations, and stick with power strip
surge suppressors?

-- Dave


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Posted by Charles Schuler on December 15, 2006, 5:46 pm



> We're moving into a house that has older two-wire ungrounded wiring.
> Short of the expense of rewiring the entire house, I'd like to make it
> as safe as possible for people and equipment. I've already put in GFCI
> outlets in bathrooms, kitchen, garage, outdoor locations. So from a
> people safety perspective I think that's about as good as we can do,
> and grounding would not improve that situation.
>
> Now for equipment, I'm thinking about a panel-based whole house surge
> suppressor, since the lack of grounding will defeat any point-of-use
> surge suppressors. There seem to be quite a few units available with
> similar specs: clamping voltages in the 400-500V range, energy
> dissipation on the order of 1000 joules, maximum current 50,000 amps,
> <5 ns response. One example is the Intermatic 1G1240R. These seem to
> generally be described as sufficient for protecting appliances but the
> vendors still recommend point-of-use surge suppressors for electronic
> equipment.
>
> There is also a product sold by Tytewadd, which clamps at 130V, maximum
> current 10,000 amps, and 1.5 ns response. It is specifically
> advertised as protection for "sensitive equipment". But... it has a
> total energy dissipation of only 70 joules, far far less than the
> previous class of units.
>
> Does anyone have experience with the Tytewadd devices? They're not
> that cheap -- $150. I'm in a generally low-lightning-risk location
> (Northern California, bay area) so maybe this kind of moderate
> protection is sufficient. But 70 joules is less than the specs on a
> rinky dink power strip. Should I save my money, ask an electrician to
> rewire a couple outlets in key locations, and stick with power strip
> surge suppressors?

Whole-house surge suppression is a good idea and that is based on personal
experience.

130 volt clamp is too low. 70 joules is too low.

There was no Internet when I installed my first unit and I went to the best
electrical supply house in my vicinity and talked to those folks. Now, you
can Google this to death.



Posted by on December 15, 2006, 7:57 pm


Charles Schuler wrote:
>
> Whole-house surge suppression is a good idea and that is based on personal
> experience.
>
> 130 volt clamp is too low. 70 joules is too low.
>
> There was no Internet when I installed my first unit and I went to the best
> electrical supply house in my vicinity and talked to those folks. Now, you
> can Google this to death.

I think I can safely say I've googled it to death already. I couldn't
find any information on the Tytewadd device except from the
manufacturer. Why is a low voltage clamp bad? I'd think that it would
be better to clamp as low as possible.

I asked a local electrician about installing a whole house surge
suppressor and he said he hadn't heard of them, and I can't find a
local supplier that stocks them. I guess that's because we're in a low
lightning risk area (we're lucky if we get one or two thunderstorms per
year), but it still seems like cheap insurance. On the other hand, if
these units are not effective for protecting electronic equipment, then
I'm back to square one.

-- Dave


Posted by HeyBub on December 15, 2006, 10:14 pm


dahinds@gmail.com wrote:
> I asked a local electrician about installing a whole house surge
> suppressor and he said he hadn't heard of them, and I can't find a
> local supplier that stocks them.

Here's twelve:

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?cgiurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2F&fkr=1&from=R8&satitle=whole+house+surge&category0=

Home Depot and Loews both (sometimes) carry them.



Posted by Pop` on December 16, 2006, 12:24 pm


HeyBub wrote:
> dahinds@gmail.com wrote:
>> I asked a local electrician about installing a whole house surge
>> suppressor and he said he hadn't heard of them, and I can't find a
>> local supplier that stocks them.

It might be the "whole house" term that's the problem. You have to watch
out for that term: Usually it means it's a replacement for a ckt breaker,
in which case that's not really "whole" house.
Also, many of them have trip voltages of 500V, which is not sufficient to
protect sensitive computer components at all, regardless of their claims.
They start out by tripping in a few nano-seconds, and that certainly helps
protect equipment, but 1. that time extends with age, and 2. if the voltage
is at 148V, it's not going to protect ANYthing! Specs and the way they're
stated vary widely, but most good equipment suppressors begin to conduct at
about 140V, reach a knee as about 150V, and then become short ckt very
quickly and solidly. You really have to be sure you're comparing apples and
oranges with these things.

Lest I be accused of saying the "whole house" protector is useless, I am
NOT!. By having a 500V trip point, they are relying on the inbuilt surge
protection in the attached equipment to be able to take the remainder of the
voltage jolt, and for the most part it works. Anything connected to the
grid in NA is protected against surges by FCC requirements for the phone
lines, but ... those are minimums, not recommended protection ranges, and
some companies really skimp to save a penny. Grid protection is usually
only afforded by the transofrmers in the equipment, or a coil here and
there. I know, our lab has tested thousands of them over the years.
Answering machines are probably the worst IME, but it definitely varies by
company. Since the new "rules" came out, the situation has improved a lot
but still is only a set of minimum requirements, not recommended
requirements.

Pop`


>
> Here's twelve:
>
>
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?cgiurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2F&fkr=1&from=R8&satitle=whole+house+surge&category0=
>
> Home Depot and Loews both (sometimes) carry them.




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