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? Whole-House fans for flat roof house?

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? Whole-House fans for flat roof house? DonC 10-06-2007
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Posted by tom on October 6, 2007, 10:38 pm
>
>
>
>
> > DonC wrote:
> >> Hi all,
>
> >> In every house I've owned, until now, I've installed a whole-house fan.
> >> They significantly reduce AC costs and make for comfortable living.
> >> Alas, that was while I lived in Michigan in houses that had attics. My
> >> typical unit included a twist timer and variable speed motor.
>
> >> Now we live in southeastern AZ in a condo with a flat built-up roof so a
> >> typical attic unit won't work. But we still have frequent cool nights
> >> that would we could benefit from.
>
> >> Anybody here have any experience with WH fans in a similar setting? My
> >> research so far has been disappointing -- no variable speed fans and
> >> fewer available units : (
>
> >> Thanks
>
> > Being in AZ I would consider a swamp (evaporative) cooler. A downdraft
> > model would easily install on a flat roof, and give you cooling when
> > needed, not just at night. I'll bet most of your neighbors have one, (or
> > A/C).
>
> Yes we have AC. Some -- but closer to a "few" rather than most -- have
> swamp coolers but they're simply a form of air cooling limited to about 20
> degrees of cooling. When temperature get over 100, 20 degrees isn't enough.
>
> But we're talking about a different animal here. A WH fan "moves" existing
> cool air supplementing AC at a much, much cheaper cost.

A WH fan will move your conditioned air into the great outdoors, won't
it? Unless you're talking about a recirculating type fan, which you
already have on your AC. Nice weather we're having now, eh? Tom


Real Goods Solar, Inc.
Posted by tom on October 6, 2007, 10:45 pm
>
>
>
>
>
> > > DonC wrote:
> > >> Hi all,
>
> > >> In every house I've owned, until now, I've installed a whole-house fan.
> > >> They significantly reduce AC costs and make for comfortable living.
> > >> Alas, that was while I lived in Michigan in houses that had attics. My
> > >> typical unit included a twist timer and variable speed motor.
>
> > >> Now we live in southeastern AZ in a condo with a flat built-up roof so a
> > >> typical attic unit won't work. But we still have frequent cool nights
> > >> that would we could benefit from.
>
> > >> Anybody here have any experience with WH fans in a similar setting? My
> > >> research so far has been disappointing -- no variable speed fans and
> > >> fewer available units : (
>
> > >> Thanks
>
> > > Being in AZ I would consider a swamp (evaporative) cooler. A downdraft
> > > model would easily install on a flat roof, and give you cooling when
> > > needed, not just at night. I'll bet most of your neighbors have one, (or
> > > A/C).
>
> > Yes we have AC. Some -- but closer to a "few" rather than most -- have
> > swamp coolers but they're simply a form of air cooling limited to about 20
> > degrees of cooling. When temperature get over 100, 20 degrees isn't enough.
>
> > But we're talking about a different animal here. A WH fan "moves" existing
> > cool air supplementing AC at a much, much cheaper cost.
>
> A WH fan will move your conditioned air into the great outdoors, won't
> it? Unless you're talking about a recirculating type fan, which you
> already have on your AC. Nice weather we're having now, eh? Tom

Oops, just re-read your initial post, and will recommend the swamp
cooler. The blower will push cooler nighttime air just fine, and save
lotsa bucks over the AC during those in-between seasonal warm
spells . Tom


Posted by DonC on October 7, 2007, 12:30 am

>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > DonC wrote:
>> >> Hi all,
>>
>> >> In every house I've owned, until now, I've installed a whole-house
>> >> fan.
>> >> They significantly reduce AC costs and make for comfortable living.
>> >> Alas, that was while I lived in Michigan in houses that had attics.
>> >> My
>> >> typical unit included a twist timer and variable speed motor.
>>
>> >> Now we live in southeastern AZ in a condo with a flat built-up roof so
>> >> a
>> >> typical attic unit won't work. But we still have frequent cool nights
>> >> that would we could benefit from.
>>
>> >> Anybody here have any experience with WH fans in a similar setting?
>> >> My
>> >> research so far has been disappointing -- no variable speed fans and
>> >> fewer available units : (
>>
>> >> Thanks
>>
>> > Being in AZ I would consider a swamp (evaporative) cooler. A downdraft
>> > model would easily install on a flat roof, and give you cooling when
>> > needed, not just at night. I'll bet most of your neighbors have one,
>> > (or
>> > A/C).
>>
>> Yes we have AC. Some -- but closer to a "few" rather than most -- have
>> swamp coolers but they're simply a form of air cooling limited to about
>> 20
>> degrees of cooling. When temperature get over 100, 20 degrees isn't
>> enough.
>>
>> But we're talking about a different animal here. A WH fan "moves"
>> existing
>> cool air supplementing AC at a much, much cheaper cost.
>
> A WH fan will move your conditioned air into the great outdoors, won't
> it? Unless you're talking about a recirculating type fan, which you
> already have on your AC. Nice weather we're having now, eh? Tom
>

A WH fan will allow you to turn your AC off and save a lot of $$$. Are you
saying that expensive AC is better than drawing natures cool air through
your house?



Posted by Edwin Pawlowski on October 6, 2007, 11:14 pm

> But we're talking about a different animal here. A WH fan "moves"
> existing cool air supplementing AC at a much, much cheaper cost.
>

I hope you mean instead of AC, not supplementing. You don't run both at the
same time do you?

As for the flat roof, how much space do you have up there above the joists?
How much venting? It may be possible, but you may be better off looking at
the mushroom cap type of roof ventilator.



Posted by DonC on October 7, 2007, 12:47 am

>
>> But we're talking about a different animal here. A WH fan "moves"
>> existing cool air supplementing AC at a much, much cheaper cost.
>>
>
> I hope you mean instead of AC, not supplementing. You don't run both at
> the same time do you?
>
> As for the flat roof, how much space do you have up there above the
> joists? How much venting? It may be possible, but you may be better off
> looking at the mushroom cap type of roof ventilator.
>

I guess I wasn't very clear on that. By supplementing I meant using cool
air during the night and early morning so as to delay turning the AC on --
if turning it on at all. If the wind is blowing the fan isn't really needed.
But that's not usually the case. The fan just gets things moving.

There's 2x12s so I guess that's 11 1/2" +/-. I'm not sure a typical
ventilator pulls enough CFM. A typical WH fan is rated 3000 to 4000 CFM.

An example of the economies of a WH fan using Atlanta as an example (The
savings would be much greater here -- south of Tucson):

. Operating a properly sized 2-ton air
conditioner with a seasonal energy
efficiency ratio (SEER) of 10 in Atlanta,
Georgia, costs over $250 per cooling
season (1,250 hours), based on
8.5¢/kWh, or roughly 20¢ per hour
of runtime.

. By contrast, a whole house fan has a
motor in the 1/4 to 1/2
hp range, uses 120
to 600 watts, and costs around 1¢ to 5¢
per hour of use.





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