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attic fan performance questions z 06-16-2008
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Posted by Red Green on June 18, 2008, 7:59 pm

> On Jun 17, 12:08 pm, trad...@optonline.net wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > innews:4856aa0b$0$30
> 156$4c368faf@roadrunner.com:
>>
>> > >     Different areas of the world get different results and certai
> nly
>> > > different vents (inlets) make for differences in results.
>>
>> > >     Frankly I have not found that power vents are of much if any
> use.
>> > > Proper generous static venting seems to work just as well without
>> > > noise and electricity.  The worse situations I have seen is when
>> > > po
> wer
>> > > vents end up disrupting the natural flow and can even increase
>> > > the temperature.
>>
>> > >     The real differences I have seen is poorly vented areas.
>>
>> > >     Overall yours does not seem to be bad.
>>
>> > >     If you really want to do something make sure it has inlets gr
> eater
>> > >     than
>> > > the minimum required and that thefanis not short circuiting the
>> > > natural air flow.
>>
>> > or sucking the AC out of the house via access, vents (stupidly)
>> > terminating in theattic, etc.
>>
>> > >com
> .
>> > > ..
>> > >> got a remote reading thermometer and stashed it in theatticto
>> > >> see what's happening. now i'm wondering what i should expect.
>>
>> > >> normalish 50 year old ranch house, connecticut. 1500 sq feet
>> > >> more or less. old central AC, not particularly powerful or
>> > >> efficient. normal amount of insulation, i.e. less than would be
>> > >> optimum but normal for the period. powered ventfan, mushroom
>> > >> style. soffit vents, gable vents, etc.
>>
>> > >> on the wise advice proferred here last year, i upped the temp on
>> > >> the thermostat for the ventfanfrom 80 degree to about 100 IIRC.
>>
>> > >> OK; so during the final months of  winter, when i had the
>> > >> thermometer, there was a maximum of about 20 degrees difference
>> > >> between the house and theattic.
>>
>> > >> lately, when it's warm, often 20 degrees difference, obviously
>> > >> in th
> e
>> > >> opposite direction. during a hot spell last week, when it was
>> > >> 90+ outside,atticgot up to 120; house got up to 87 (AC off
>> > >> during daytime).
>>
>> > >> so, is this reasonable/expected for poweredatticvent? would
>> > >> bigger
>> > >>fando better?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> He doesn't say what the temp was outside during the final days of
>> winter, but if the temp diff between theatticand the house was only
>> 20 deg, I hope it was not very cold outside, as that means theattic
>> was at about 50 deg.    If it was cold outside,  I'd expect a much
>> bigger temp difference between theatticand the inside of the
>> house.
>>
>> Probably the best thing that could be done here is to increase the
>> amount ofatticinsulation.   That will do a lot more to keepattic
>> heat out of the house than installing a biggerfan.   Plus you get
>> benefit not only in summer, but also with reduced heat loss in the
>> winter.
>>
>> I also second the advice to make sure there is adequate intake
>> opening, ie soffit, gable, etc.   If there isn't, you not only reduce
>> the cooling capaciyt, but you can be sucking air from inside the
>> house through any gaps, openings around fixtures, etc.- Hide quoted
>> text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> i was afraid you'd say something like that. is installing more
> insulation as big a PIA as it looks? to make it worse, the previous
> dwellers laid plywood over the joists to provide flooring for storage.
> at least they didn't bother to fasten it down.



> the previous dwellers laid plywood over the joists

This comment may be a whole new ballgame you know.

If the insulation was any thicker than the ceiling joists/bottom truss
chord and they put plywood over it and compressed it, they have reduced
the r-factor of your attic insulation. Insulation works because of the
air within it. Depending on how much it was crushed depends on how much
it reduced it.

Were there areas of no plywood? What's the insulation scoop there?

PexSupply PEX Tools 468x60
Posted by z on June 19, 2008, 11:38 am
da4b@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 17, 12:08=A0pm, trad...@optonline.net wrote:
>
> >> > innews:4856aa0b$0$30
> > 156$4c368...@roadrunner.com:
>
> >> > > =A0 =A0 Different areas of the world get different results and cer=
tai
> > nly
> >> > > different vents (inlets) make for differences in results.
>
> >> > > =A0 =A0 Frankly I have not found that power vents are of much if a=
ny
> > use.
> >> > > Proper generous static venting seems to work just as well without
> >> > > noise and electricity. =A0The worse situations I have seen is when
> >> > > po
> > wer
> >> > > vents end up disrupting the natural flow and can even increase
> >> > > the temperature.
>
> >> > > =A0 =A0 The real differences I have seen is poorly vented areas.
>
> >> > > =A0 =A0 Overall yours does not seem to be bad.
>
> >> > > =A0 =A0 If you really want to do something make sure it has inlets=
gr
> > eater
> >> > > =A0 =A0 than
> >> > > the minimum required and that thefanis not short circuiting the
> >> > > natural air flow.
>
> >> > or sucking the AC out of the house via access, vents (stupidly)
> >> > terminating in theattic, etc.
>
> >> > >com
> > .
> >> > > ..
> >> > >> got a remote reading thermometer and stashed it in theatticto
> >> > >> see what's happening. now i'm wondering what i should expect.
>
> >> > >> normalish 50 year old ranch house, connecticut. 1500 sq feet
> >> > >> more or less. old central AC, not particularly powerful or
> >> > >> efficient. normal amount of insulation, i.e. less than would be
> >> > >> optimum but normal for the period. powered ventfan, mushroom
> >> > >> style. soffit vents, gable vents, etc.
>
> >> > >> on the wise advice proferred here last year, i upped the temp on
> >> > >> the thermostat for the ventfanfrom 80 degree to about 100 IIRC.
>
> >> > >> OK; so during the final months of =A0winter, when i had the
> >> > >> thermometer, there was a maximum of about 20 degrees difference
> >> > >> between the house and theattic.
>
> >> > >> lately, when it's warm, often 20 degrees difference, obviously
> >> > >> in th
> > e
> >> > >> opposite direction. during a hot spell last week, when it was
> >> > >> 90+ outside,atticgot up to 120; house got up to 87 (AC off
> >> > >> during daytime).
>
> >> > >> so, is this reasonable/expected for poweredatticvent? would
> >> > >> bigger
> >> > >>fando better?- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> > - Show quoted text -
>
> >> He doesn't say what the temp was outside during the final days of
> >> winter, but if the temp diff between theatticand the house was only
> >> 20 deg, I hope it was not very cold outside, as that means theattic
> >> was at about 50 deg. =A0 =A0If it was cold outside, =A0I'd expect a mu=
ch
> >> bigger temp difference between theatticand the inside of the
> >> house.
>
> >> Probably the best thing that could be done here is to increase the
> >> amount ofatticinsulation. =A0 That will do a lot more to keepattic
> >> heat out of the house than installing a biggerfan. =A0 Plus you get
> >> benefit not only in summer, but also with reduced heat loss in the
> >> winter.
>
> >> I also second the advice to make sure there is adequate intake
> >> opening, ie soffit, gable, etc. =A0 If there isn't, you not only reduc=
e
> >> the cooling capaciyt, but you can be sucking air from inside the
> >> house through any gaps, openings around fixtures, etc.- Hide quoted
> >> text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > i was afraid you'd say something like that. is installing more
> > insulation as big a PIA as it looks? to make it worse, the previous
> > dwellers laid plywood over the joists to provide flooring for storage.
> > at least they didn't bother to fasten it down.
> > the previous dwellers laid plywood over the joists
>
> This comment may be a whole new ballgame you know.
>
> If the insulation was any thicker than the ceiling joists/bottom truss
> chord and they put plywood over it and compressed it, they have reduced
> the r-factor of your attic insulation. Insulation works because of the
> air within it. Depending on how much it was crushed depends on how much
> it reduced it.
>
> Were there areas of no plywood? What's the insulation scoop there?- Hide =
quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

yeah, i thought of that, but as far as i can tell, the insulation just
was installed up to the top of the joists, maybe on purpose so they
could use storage space. i think i'll store my collection of valuable
antique paraffin wax sculptures and vinyl records up there.

Posted by on June 20, 2008, 3:40 am
> On Jun 17, 12:08=A0pm, trad...@optonline.net wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
30156$4c368faf@roadrunner.com:
>
> > > > =A0 =A0 Different areas of the world get different results and cert=
ainly
> > > > different vents (inlets) make for differences in results.
>
> > > > =A0 =A0 Frankly I have not found that power vents are of much if an=
y use.
> > > > Proper generous static venting seems to work just as well without
> > > > noise and electricity. =A0The worse situations I have seen is when =
power
> > > > vents end up disrupting the natural flow and can even increase the
> > > > temperature.
>
> > > > =A0 =A0 The real differences I have seen is poorly vented areas.
>
> > > > =A0 =A0 Overall yours does not seem to be bad.
>
> > > > =A0 =A0 If you really want to do something make sure it has inlets =
greater
> > > > =A0 =A0 than
> > > > the minimum required and that thefanis not short circuiting the
> > > > natural air flow.
>
> > > or sucking the AC out of the house via access, vents (stupidly)
> > > terminating in theattic, etc.
>
om.
> > > > ..
> > > >> got a remote reading thermometer and stashed it in theatticto see
> > > >> what's happening. now i'm wondering what i should expect.
>
> > > >> normalish 50 year old ranch house, connecticut. 1500 sq feet more =
or
> > > >> less. old central AC, not particularly powerful or efficient. norm=
al
> > > >> amount of insulation, i.e. less than would be optimum but normal f=
or
> > > >> the period. powered ventfan, mushroom style. soffit vents, gable
> > > >> vents, etc.
>
> > > >> on the wise advice proferred here last year, i upped the temp on t=
he
> > > >> thermostat for the ventfanfrom 80 degree to about 100 IIRC.
>
> > > >> OK; so during the final months of =A0winter, when i had the
> > > >> thermometer, there was a maximum of about 20 degrees difference
> > > >> between the house and theattic.
>
> > > >> lately, when it's warm, often 20 degrees difference, obviously in =
the
> > > >> opposite direction. during a hot spell last week, when it was 90+
> > > >> outside,atticgot up to 120; house got up to 87 (AC off during
> > > >> daytime).
>
> > > >> so, is this reasonable/expected for poweredatticvent? would bigger
> > > >>fando better?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > He doesn't say what the temp was outside during the final days of
> > winter, but if the temp diff between theatticand the house was only
> > 20 deg, I hope it was not very cold outside, as that means theattic
> > was at about 50 deg. =A0 =A0If it was cold outside, =A0I'd expect a muc=
h
> > bigger temp difference between theatticand the inside of the
> > house.
>
> > Probably the best thing that could be done here is to increase the
> > amount ofatticinsulation. =A0 That will do a lot more to keepattic
> > heat out of the house than installing a biggerfan. =A0 Plus you get
> > benefit not only in summer, but also with reduced heat loss in the
> > winter.
>
> > I also second the advice to make sure there is adequate intake
> > opening, ie soffit, gable, etc. =A0 If there isn't, you not only reduce
> > the cooling capaciyt, but you can be sucking air from inside the house
> > through any gaps, openings around fixtures, etc.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> i was afraid you'd say something like that. is installing more
> insulation as big a PIA as it looks? to make it worse, the previous
> dwellers laid plywood over the joists to provide flooring for storage.
> at least they didn't bother to fasten it down.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


Since the plywood is not nailed down, it should be relatively easy to
add more insulation. However, you will lose the storage space,
unless you can do some additional framing and add the plywood back at
a higher level. For the insulation to work, it can't be compressed,
so you can't shove more of it in then have the plywood squeeze it back
down.

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