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Subject Author Date
ceramic tile mm 10-22-2009
---> Re: ceramic tile norminn@earthli...10-22-2009
---> Re: ceramic tile John Grabowski10-22-2009
| |--> Re: ceramic tile John Grabowski10-22-2009
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Posted by DD_BobK on October 23, 2009, 11:05 pm


.
> > > > Master Betty wrote:
> > > >>>> I was visiting my brother and they have 12" ceramic tile in most
> > > >>>> rooms.
> > > >>>> A lot of the tiles are about a half millimeter higher or lower t=
han
> > > >>>> the one next to it. Maybe less, but I can easily feel the
> > > >>>> difference with my fingers, and when pushing a dresser, the dres=
ser
> > > >>>> has to be lifted up to get onto the next tile.
> > > >>>> Is this work within professional standards?
> > > >>> *Every professional has his own standards. If this was a low bid,
> > > >>> fast install, get in and get out job I think those tolerances are
> > > >>> pretty good. If this is a multi-million dollar celebrity mansion =
I
> > > >>> would say that is unacceptable.
> > > >> That seems like strange logic.
> > > >> If you get paid less, you'd do the job intentionally sloppy? I'd
> > > >> think a competent tile person would have to try to screw it up.
> > > > Fast, correct, cheap. Pick two.
> > > Maybe I'm not thinking in the real world but usually the better worke=
rs
> > > "are" the faster workers.
> > > For example: If a barber is taking too long to cut my hair I know I
> > > won't
> > > like the results.
> > > A cheaper tile job to me means cheaper tile. Not sloppy installation.
> > > Jim
> > your POV might be correct in a parallel universe but in my experience
> > HeyBub's comment is "spot on"
> > or as we say "fast, cheap or good" ..... pick the two you'll be
> > happiest with...... :)
> > A guy who's trying to deliver on a "cheap" job with skimp on mat'l AND
> > labor cost to minimize the overall cost
> > Very few people intentionally do sloppy work but the realities of
> > business & low bids force workers to cut corners and accept lessor
> > results.
> > Just the facts. :(
> > cheers
> > Bob
> > +++++
> > The guy doing the job in a mansion or a shack is probably going to lay =
the
> > tile to the best of his ability. The pro is going to do the job right
> > regardless. He's not going to screw it up because he's laying cheaper
> > tile. ---
> Dear MB-
> I know there is a dead horse in here some where........
> but you;re just not "getting it"
> ++++++++
> Having laid a bit of tile myself and having worked in a tile store for a
> short period may have something to do with it. I will not accept shoddy
> work. Which is why I always warn anyone working on my house upfront. If
> you'll accept shoddy work that's your business.
> But I agree with the consensus that .5 mm is nothing to complain about.

My point is:

you cant pay for a Yugo and expect a Cadillac, that's all

Paying top dollar and getting shoddy work is a bummer.
Expecting perfection when one pays bargain rates is abusive.

Consider painting..... blemish free / top quality results require
careful prep, good painting skills & sufficient, good quality paint.
If the customer is only will to pay for one coat & doesn't want you to
spend much time on prep and wants the prime coat omitted......whose
fault is it when the results suck? Is the painter supposed to make up
the difference out of his own pocket?

You get what you pay for ....... if you're vigilant, lucky or hire
good people.

cheers
Bob


Posted by RicodJour on October 22, 2009, 7:06 pm


> >I was visiting my brother and they have 12" ceramic tile in most
> > rooms.
> > A lot of the tiles are about a half millimeter higher or lower than
> > the one next to it. =A0 Maybe less, but I can easily feel the differenc=
e
> > with my fingers, and when pushing a dresser, the dresser has to be
> > lifted up to get onto the next tile.
> > Is this work within professional standards?
> *Every professional has his own standards. If this was a low bid, fast
> install, get in and get out job I think those tolerances are pretty good.
> If this is a multi-million dollar celebrity mansion I would say that is
> unacceptable.

Any hack would point to a job where the lippage was within a half
millimeter as a great job, and he wouldn't be wrong. Most owners
would be tickled to have a job that flat. A half millimeter is about
the thickness of four sheets of paper. Fold over two sheets of paper
and make a sharp crease, put it on your desk, then run your finger
from the desk over the crease. Now factor in that it's ceramic tile
so there are no 90 degree corners - the top edges are rounded over a
bit. Plus there's a grout line in between.

There are tile standards, and they are specific. They take into the
size of the tile and the width of the grout line. The contractor has
little to no control over the tile. All tile has some warpage from
the firing and drying. An owner would go ape shit if a contractor
rejected 50% of the tile the owner had supplied. If the owner wants a
perfectly flat floor there are ways to achieve that, and it doesn't
necessarily have to be in multimillion dollar houses.

http://www.tilemagonline.com/Articles/Column/BNP_GUID_9-5-2006_A_1000000000=
0000174382

To the OP: To answer your question - yes. It is within acceptable
professional standards as outlined in your brother's contract. And
here's a bit of unsolicited advice - don't slide dressers over grout
lines on tile. Even if the edges are in plane the grout line is lower
and you could chip an edge.

R

Posted by Master Betty on October 22, 2009, 7:17 pm


My guess would be it's off further that .5 mm. But you're right. That's
hardly worth complaining about.

As far as sliding stuff over grout lines; we do it all the time. Some tiles
handle the variance better than others. The ones we used in our nursing home
hallway had sharp edges where the ones we have in our home are contoured on
the edges. The ones in our house are off but because of the shape it doesn't
matter as much.



Posted by John Grabowski on October 22, 2009, 8:30 pm



> >I was visiting my brother and they have 12" ceramic tile in most
> > rooms.
> > A lot of the tiles are about a half millimeter higher or lower than
> > the one next to it. Maybe less, but I can easily feel the difference
> > with my fingers, and when pushing a dresser, the dresser has to be
> > lifted up to get onto the next tile.
> > Is this work within professional standards?
> *Every professional has his own standards. If this was a low bid, fast
> install, get in and get out job I think those tolerances are pretty good.
> If this is a multi-million dollar celebrity mansion I would say that is
> unacceptable.

Any hack would point to a job where the lippage was within a half
millimeter as a great job, and he wouldn't be wrong. Most owners
would be tickled to have a job that flat. A half millimeter is about
the thickness of four sheets of paper. Fold over two sheets of paper
and make a sharp crease, put it on your desk, then run your finger
from the desk over the crease. Now factor in that it's ceramic tile
so there are no 90 degree corners - the top edges are rounded over a
bit. Plus there's a grout line in between.

There are tile standards, and they are specific. They take into the
size of the tile and the width of the grout line. The contractor has
little to no control over the tile. All tile has some warpage from
the firing and drying. An owner would go ape shit if a contractor
rejected 50% of the tile the owner had supplied. If the owner wants a
perfectly flat floor there are ways to achieve that, and it doesn't
necessarily have to be in multimillion dollar houses.


*In my mind I was picturing cut stone tile such as marble. I didn't take
notice that the OP was talking about ceramic which can be all over the
place. I remember seeing unfinished Mexican tile being installed in a
Beverly Hills home that had an old Mexico Theme. Rough and uneven was
normal.



http://www.tilemagonline.com/Articles/Column/BNP_GUID_9-5-2006_A_10000000000000174382

To the OP: To answer your question - yes. It is within acceptable
professional standards as outlined in your brother's contract. And
here's a bit of unsolicited advice - don't slide dressers over grout
lines on tile. Even if the edges are in plane the grout line is lower
and you could chip an edge.

R


Posted by Oren on October 22, 2009, 10:04 pm


On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:06:11 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour

> All tile has some warpage from
>the firing and drying.

One day it was explained to me the not all tile is square and grout
lines may get crooked (?). The guy stacked numerous tiles and aligned
them like a deck of cards. Sure enough the difference was obvious.

He showed the mark/stamps (not all tile is the same) and said if you
orient the tile with the mark/stamp in the same way you will avoid
poor lines for the grout.

Anyway, it was interesting to me.


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