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Posted by Jules on October 7, 2009, 4:36 pm
On Wed, 07 Oct 2009 11:36:59 -0400, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
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>
> -snip-
>>At some point I'd like to move the (rented) tank to somewhere more
>>sensible, but I don't know if that's something they'll let me do myself -
>>if they insist on doing it, it'll probably be expensive...
>
> Phone calls are free. Ask 'em.
Yeah, I keep trying to get the necessary tuits together :-)
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> When I moved mine 8-9 yrs ago I only paid for the tubing. The labor
> was free. They said they did it that way so people didn't DIY &
> cause a hazard.
I had them come out and trace our line a little while back as it was where
I wanted to put a dog fence in - I was surprised that the line was only
6" down and just plain old 3/8" copper pipe; I was expecting something
deeper and a bit stronger (possibly even a pipe within a pipe). I know
that's all it is within the house, but I'd thought the outdoor stuff would
be a bit tougher.
cheers
Jules
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Posted by clare on October 6, 2009, 11:21 pm
wrote:
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>I just read this from an AP article:
>"Households are expected to pay an average of $783, nearly 12 percent
>less than last winter, for natural gas, and $1,821 for heating oil,
>about 2 percent lower. People using electric heat will pay $933, a
>decline of 2 percent and those using propane $1,667, or 14 percent
>less than last winter, the agency said."
>Isn't electric the most expensive of all? Or are they saying that
>people who use electric heat have that as their average bill, but
>they're in warmer climes so they don't need as much heating anyway?
Your electric heating is 100% efficient. It ALL turns to heat
somewhere in the house and none is lost out the "stack". It CAN be
cheaper than propane or oil. Sometimes.
I've told many people who converted from electric to gas to leave the
electric heat installed - if gas prices spike, use the electric.
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Posted by AZ Nomad on October 6, 2009, 11:36 pm
wrote:
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>wrote:
>>I just read this from an AP article:
>>"Households are expected to pay an average of $783, nearly 12 percent
>>less than last winter, for natural gas, and $1,821 for heating oil,
>>about 2 percent lower. People using electric heat will pay $933, a
>>decline of 2 percent and those using propane $1,667, or 14 percent
>>less than last winter, the agency said."
>>Isn't electric the most expensive of all? Or are they saying that
>>people who use electric heat have that as their average bill, but
>>they're in warmer climes so they don't need as much heating anyway?
> Your electric heating is 100% efficient. It ALL turns to heat
>somewhere in the house and none is lost out the "stack". It CAN be
>cheaper than propane or oil. Sometimes.
>I've told many people who converted from electric to gas to leave the
>electric heat installed - if gas prices spike, use the electric.
Generally, electric heat is 10 times more expensive than fossil fuels.
It has to be one hell of a fuel price spike for electric heat to be worth
it. The only time electric heat can be remotely reasonable is if only
one room is heated.
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Posted by gfretwell on October 7, 2009, 2:23 am
On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 22:36:25 -0500, AZ Nomad
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>> Your electric heating is 100% efficient. It ALL turns to heat
>>somewhere in the house and none is lost out the "stack". It CAN be
>>cheaper than propane or oil. Sometimes.
>>I've told many people who converted from electric to gas to leave the
>>electric heat installed - if gas prices spike, use the electric.
>Generally, electric heat is 10 times more expensive than fossil fuels.
>It has to be one hell of a fuel price spike for electric heat to be worth
>it. The only time electric heat can be remotely reasonable is if only
>one room is heated.
You don't have to use resistive elements to have electric heat. There
are also heat pumps. If your climate is mild enough for a heat pump
they could beat gas and certainly oil or propane.
I know a heat pump pool heater is cheaper to run than nat gas in SW
Fla because I know people with both types and very similar pools.
That is with a fairly warm ambient tho.
The country club where my wife works uses heat pumps on all 7 pools
they have because they are cheaper to operate..
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Posted by Jules on October 7, 2009, 9:04 am
On Wed, 07 Oct 2009 02:23:40 -0400, gfretwell wrote:
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> On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 22:36:25 -0500, AZ Nomad
>
>>> Your electric heating is 100% efficient. It ALL turns to heat
>>>somewhere in the house and none is lost out the "stack". It CAN be
>>>cheaper than propane or oil. Sometimes.
>>>I've told many people who converted from electric to gas to leave the
>>>electric heat installed - if gas prices spike, use the electric.
>>Generally, electric heat is 10 times more expensive than fossil fuels.
Well, see other post - we were seeing propane heat costs of about 2x elec.
heating cost last season.
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> You don't have to use resistive elements to have electric heat. There
> are also heat pumps. If your climate is mild enough for a heat pump they
> could beat gas and certainly oil or propane.
I think you can run ground-source pretty much anywhere, can't you? But
air-source craps out at about -20F (so no good up here).
I'd like to put a GSHP in one day, but I need to work out where the frost
line is first (unless that info's online anywhere, but I've not found it
yet). All I know is that the well lines are 8' down and they didn't
freeze, so it's somewhere above that ;-)
I can borrow tools and dig trenches / lay the ground loops myself, but
that's only if I can find a compnay that'll work with me and handle
equipment supply and any bits I can't do; I think a lot of them want to do
the whole job, and of course the labor for putting the loops in is $$$.
At the moment I'm probably better off replacing all the old wood-framed
windows and saving the GSHP for the next project after that (by which time
maybe there'll be more 'public domain' information available on them
and a few more folk will have documented their own experiences)
cheers
Jules
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> -snip-
>>At some point I'd like to move the (rented) tank to somewhere more
>>sensible, but I don't know if that's something they'll let me do myself -
>>if they insist on doing it, it'll probably be expensive...
>
> Phone calls are free. Ask 'em.