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Posted by JRStern on November 2, 2009, 6:13 pm
When can these things be repaired, versus being replaced?
Forced-air gas heater didn't seem to be sending up any heat today, so
I cycled it a bunch of times, then finally descended to the 10x10
basement where it lives. Flame would come on, after a minute or three,
stay on for 10 seconds, then go out again. Blower kept blowing.
System was working fine two days ago - but for some years, it has had
the habit of turning on only slowly, after a minute or three of
waiting.
So I called one of the big chain repair places, they came in, popped
off the cover, told me the pilot was getting sucked away, and this was
a sign that the whole thing needs replacing, for about $10k. Plus,
the water heater looks like it's had a couple of leaks, might want to
replace it, too, for another $1,500.
Heat/Air is a Carrier unit circa 1984 (house much older), so it's not
like a newer, higher-efficiency unit might not be a good idea anyway.
Not sure of the water heater age, probably not that old.
This is a unit for a 2,000sqft house in suburban Los Angeles.
What surprises me is how quick the repair guys went to "Replace!".
Can't these things be repaired? How complex is a gas furnace anyway?
The repair guys seemed to know their business, I just wonder how much
of their business is doing replacement rather than repair, if you know
what I mean.
Me being a total newbie on this, any advice appreciated.
Thanks.
Josh
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Posted by ransley on November 2, 2009, 6:16 pm
show/hide quoted text
> When can these things be repaired, versus being replaced?
> Forced-air gas heater didn't seem to be sending up any heat today, so
> I cycled it a bunch of times, then finally descended to the 10x10
> basement where it lives. Flame would come on, after a minute or three,
> stay on for 10 seconds, then go out again. =A0Blower kept blowing.
> System was working fine two days ago - but for some years, it has had
> the habit of turning on only slowly, after a minute or three of
> waiting.
> So I called one of the big chain repair places, they came in, popped
> off the cover, told me the pilot was getting sucked away, and this was
> a sign that the whole thing needs replacing, for about $10k. =A0Plus,
> the water heater looks like it's had a couple of leaks, might want to
> replace it, too, for another $1,500.
> Heat/Air is a Carrier unit circa 1984 (house much older), so it's not
> like a newer, higher-efficiency unit might not be a good idea anyway.
> Not sure of the water heater age, probably not that old.
> This is a unit for a 2,000sqft house in suburban Los Angeles.
> What surprises me is how quick the repair guys went to "Replace!".
> Can't these things be repaired? =A0How complex is a gas furnace anyway?
> The repair guys seemed to know their business, I just wonder how much
> of their business is doing replacement rather than repair, if you know
> what I mean.
> Me being a total newbie on this, any advice appreciated.
> Thanks.
> Josh
They make more money replacing units, you got a dishonest tech.
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Posted by dpb on November 2, 2009, 6:23 pm
ransley wrote:
...
show/hide quoted text
> They make more money replacing units, you got a dishonest tech.
Maybe, but certainly not necessarily.
Symptom can be sign of exchanger leak. I would have expected them to
have lit and done some testing for combustion gases first, though.
Certainly you'll want a second or even third opinion/bid before
committing. In LA area wouldn't think enough of a heat load that
efficiency on that side would matter terribly much but A/C upgrade could
potentially pay for itself relatively short order depending on what
efficiency it is.
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Posted by JRStern on November 2, 2009, 7:03 pm
show/hide quoted text
>ransley wrote:
>...
>> They make more money replacing units, you got a dishonest tech.
>Maybe, but certainly not necessarily.
>Symptom can be sign of exchanger leak. I would have expected them to
>have lit and done some testing for combustion gases first, though.
They did some kind of a "smoke test" with a lighter and a piece of
paper, seemed very concerned that the pilot was getting sucked to one
side.
Seemed curious to me, for all I knew that was normal.
But then, they had removed the front panel of the unit, and it (too
late!) occured to me it was acting differently that way, compared to
how it was with the panel on - it only lit for a second or two with
the panel removed, I suppose the pilot was more stable while the unit
was still closed.
I saw in another company's yellow page ad something about a "fire box
cracked?", which is I guess what these repair guys were concerned
about. They said it could be repaired - but would require hauling the
unit out of the cellar and down to the shop, so presumably would be
expensive anyway, if they can still get the parts for a 25 year old
Carrier unit.
Can't someone just screw on a piece of sheet metal or something?
(I know, in this here modern age, nothing is repaired, everything is
replaced, and nothing is *patched*!)
I gather the air conditioning efficiency savings might be on the order
of a hundred bucks a month or more? It's not the hottest part of LA,
but it probably runs the air for at least a couple of hours, maybe six
months a year, and does the whole house, not zoned.
(and actually I was thinking all summer it probably needed a service
call for the air anyway - and probably uses Freon we can't get anymore
either!)
So, I'll ask again about one other salient point - is $10k a
reasonable price for the job?
(If this old receipt is accurate, it cost nearly that much to install
25 years ago, which would make $10k today seem pretty reasonable!)
Josh
ps - they install "American Standard" products, which seemed to get a
reasonable repair rating in Consumers Reports, fwiw.
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Posted by dpb on November 2, 2009, 7:03 pm
JRStern wrote:
...
show/hide quoted text
> Can't someone just screw on a piece of sheet metal or something?
...
Yes, that's what they were concerned about.
Absolutely not. You're talking letting combustion gas products into the
living space here--CO poisoning, iow. Life or death matter, not simply
a few bucks.
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> Forced-air gas heater didn't seem to be sending up any heat today, so
> I cycled it a bunch of times, then finally descended to the 10x10
> basement where it lives. Flame would come on, after a minute or three,
> stay on for 10 seconds, then go out again. =A0Blower kept blowing.
> System was working fine two days ago - but for some years, it has had
> the habit of turning on only slowly, after a minute or three of
> waiting.
> So I called one of the big chain repair places, they came in, popped
> off the cover, told me the pilot was getting sucked away, and this was
> a sign that the whole thing needs replacing, for about $10k. =A0Plus,
> the water heater looks like it's had a couple of leaks, might want to
> replace it, too, for another $1,500.
> Heat/Air is a Carrier unit circa 1984 (house much older), so it's not
> like a newer, higher-efficiency unit might not be a good idea anyway.
> Not sure of the water heater age, probably not that old.
> This is a unit for a 2,000sqft house in suburban Los Angeles.
> What surprises me is how quick the repair guys went to "Replace!".
> Can't these things be repaired? =A0How complex is a gas furnace anyway?
> The repair guys seemed to know their business, I just wonder how much
> of their business is doing replacement rather than repair, if you know
> what I mean.
> Me being a total newbie on this, any advice appreciated.
> Thanks.
> Josh