heater guy says replace furnace/AC

Posted by on November 3, 2009, 8:38 am

> >Inland San Diego, which is probably similar to your location in LA.

> Yes.

> >We had our 25 year old hot-air gas furnaces and airconditioners (3 ton e=

ach)

> >replaced 2 years ago. Installed price was 8,000. Bids ranged from 16,000=

> >7,000. You need to do a lot more homework. Also, make sure to take out a
> >permit. As part of the replacement you are required by law to have a
> >verification of your duct system. This cost another $ 500. If you don't =

> >it, it will bite you when you sell the house.

> We probably have some old asbestos hanging around,
> how much of a $$ is that likely to be?

> >Also replaced our two water heaters, 40 gal. gas, last year: $ 800 each,
> >courtesy Home Depot. At $ 1500 for one, you are getting ripped off.

> I guess I could call them for an estimate,
> but they don't do the work, do they, just hook
> you up with some "approved vendors"?
> Again, these (both furnace and water heater) have to be manually
> hauled into a very inconvenient hole - or else installed
> in a new outside shelter somewhere. =A0I can see a hundred dollars
> or more premium for the difficulty. =A0And they were saying new
> ducts are necessary, another couple of hundred, I guess. =A0But it
> still may be high, thanks.

> >25 years is about the maximum life expectancy for gas furnaces. Don't go=

for

> >the expensive, high efficiency furnaces and air conditioners. We pay abo=

ut $

> >100 a year for air conditioning electricity. Would take several lifetime=

s to

> >pay for high efficiency units.

> Excellent point, thanks.
> Even the run of the mill is probably a lot more efficient than
> these old models, 1984 was just before the more-efficient appliances
> movements began.
> J.

Here in NJ companies are running newspaper ads for Trane 100K BTU
upright gas furnace and 13SEER AC for around $5k AFTER rebates and tax
credits. I think as of right now the tax credits for high eff units
expire the end of the year, though they might get extended. Make
sure you check on ALL rebates available from manufacturers, utility
companies, FED/state govt etc. They are substantial but only apply
to high eff models and now could be a good time to replace a 25 year
old unit.

Posted by propman on November 3, 2009, 12:10 pm

JRStern wrote:

>> Inland San Diego, which is probably similar to your location in LA.

>
> Yes.
>

>> We had our 25 year old hot-air gas furnaces and airconditioners (3 ton each)
>> replaced 2 years ago. Installed price was 8,000. Bids ranged from 16,000 to
>> 7,000. You need to do a lot more homework. Also, make sure to take out a
>> permit. As part of the replacement you are required by law to have a
>> verification of your duct system. This cost another $ 500. If you don't do
>> it, it will bite you when you sell the house.

FWIW, a recent article I just ran across in one of my RSS feeds.....

http://www.freemoneyfinance.com/2009/11/how-to-buy-a-new-furnace-and-air-conditioner.html

Posted by Red Green on November 3, 2009, 10:28 pm

> Inland San Diego, which is probably similar to your location in LA.
>
> We had our 25 year old hot-air gas furnaces and airconditioners (3 ton
> each) replaced 2 years ago. Installed price was 8,000. Bids ranged
> from 16,000 to 7,000. You need to do a lot more homework. Also, make
> sure to take out a permit. As part of the replacement you are required
> by law to have a verification of your duct system.

I would expect the HVAC to do this and be part of the quote. It has to be
installed to code and it has to have inspection(s) like
gas/mechanical/electrical. When all inspections pass then final payment
is made.

> This cost another $
> 500. If you don't do it, it will bite you when you sell the house.
>
> Also replaced our two water heaters, 40 gal. gas, last year: $ 800
> each, courtesy Home Depot. At $ 1500 for one, you are getting ripped
> off.
>
> 25 years is about the maximum life expectancy for gas furnaces. Don't
> go for the expensive, high efficiency furnaces and air conditioners.
> We pay about $ 100 a year for air conditioning electricity. Would take
> several lifetimes to pay for high efficiency units.
>

Posted by Existential Angst on November 3, 2009, 10:49 am

> When can these things be repaired, versus being replaced?
> Forced-air gas heater didn't seem to be sending up any heat today, so
> I cycled it a bunch of times, then finally descended to the 10x10
> basement where it lives. Flame would come on, after a minute or three,
> stay on for 10 seconds, then go out again. Blower kept blowing.
> System was working fine two days ago - but for some years, it has had
> the habit of turning on only slowly, after a minute or three of
> waiting.
> So I called one of the big chain repair places, they came in, popped
> off the cover, told me the pilot was getting sucked away, and this was
> a sign that the whole thing needs replacing, for about $10k. Plus,
> the water heater looks like it's had a couple of leaks, might want to
> replace it, too, for another $1,500.
> Heat/Air is a Carrier unit circa 1984 (house much older), so it's not
> like a newer, higher-efficiency unit might not be a good idea anyway.
> Not sure of the water heater age, probably not that old.
> This is a unit for a 2,000sqft house in suburban Los Angeles.
> What surprises me is how quick the repair guys went to "Replace!".
> Can't these things be repaired? How complex is a gas furnace anyway?
> The repair guys seemed to know their business, I just wonder how much
> of their business is doing replacement rather than repair, if you know
> what I mean.
> Me being a total newbie on this, any advice appreciated.
> Thanks.

Someone mentioned buying a controller from Graingers for $35. I'd like to
see THAT!!
You can get a generic controller for about $100 from White-Rodgers, but
without a flame probe, and you will proly have to add extra blower relays.

If I understood the problem correctly, the flame going out is not a pilot
problem -- a pilot problem would prevent any ignition. The problem (now) is
the flame doesn't stay on, which could mean a flame probe/sensor problem.
Flame probes cost anywhere from $25 to $100.

Which doesn't mean the exchanger is *not* cracked, but I think this is dicey
to diagnose, as blowers can stir up ambient air around them as well, making
match/smoke tests difficult to assess.

Rewiring a furnace is not rocket science, but it does requre some
familiarity with basic electricity, relays, etc.
--
EA

> Josh
>

Posted by Red Green on November 3, 2009, 10:31 pm

>> When can these things be repaired, versus being replaced?
>> Forced-air gas heater didn't seem to be sending up any heat today, so
>> I cycled it a bunch of times, then finally descended to the 10x10
>> basement where it lives. Flame would come on, after a minute or
>> three, stay on for 10 seconds, then go out again. Blower kept
>> blowing.
>> System was working fine two days ago - but for some years, it has had
>> the habit of turning on only slowly, after a minute or three of
>> waiting.
>> So I called one of the big chain repair places, they came in, popped
>> off the cover, told me the pilot was getting sucked away, and this
>> was a sign that the whole thing needs replacing, for about $10k.
>> Plus, the water heater looks like it's had a couple of leaks, might
>> want to replace it, too, for another $1,500.
>> Heat/Air is a Carrier unit circa 1984 (house much older), so it's not
>> like a newer, higher-efficiency unit might not be a good idea anyway.
>> Not sure of the water heater age, probably not that old.
>> This is a unit for a 2,000sqft house in suburban Los Angeles.
>> What surprises me is how quick the repair guys went to "Replace!".
>> Can't these things be repaired? How complex is a gas furnace anyway?
>> The repair guys seemed to know their business, I just wonder how much
>> of their business is doing replacement rather than repair, if you
>> know what I mean.
>> Me being a total newbie on this, any advice appreciated.
>> Thanks.

>
> Someone mentioned buying a controller from Graingers for $35. I'd
> like to see THAT!!
> You can get a generic controller for about $100 from White-Rodgers,
> but without a flame probe, and you will proly have to add extra blower
> relays.
>
> If I understood the problem correctly, the flame going out is not a
> pilot problem -- a pilot problem would prevent any ignition. The
> problem (now) is the flame doesn't stay on, which could mean a flame
> probe/sensor problem. Flame probes cost anywhere from $25 to $100.
>
> Which doesn't mean the exchanger is *not* cracked, but I think this is
> dicey to diagnose, as blowers can stir up ambient air around them as
> well, making match/smoke tests difficult to assess.
>
> Rewiring a furnace is not rocket science,

Neither is spelling "probably".

> but it does requre some
> familiarity with basic electricity, relays, etc.

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heater guy says replace furnace/AC - Page 6