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Posted by Existential Angst on November 4, 2009, 10:57 am
>>> When can these things be repaired, versus being replaced?
>>> Forced-air gas heater didn't seem to be sending up any heat today, so
>>> I cycled it a bunch of times, then finally descended to the 10x10
>>> basement where it lives. Flame would come on, after a minute or
>>> three, stay on for 10 seconds, then go out again. Blower kept
>>> blowing.
>>> System was working fine two days ago - but for some years, it has had
>>> the habit of turning on only slowly, after a minute or three of
>>> waiting.
>>> So I called one of the big chain repair places, they came in, popped
>>> off the cover, told me the pilot was getting sucked away, and this
>>> was a sign that the whole thing needs replacing, for about $10k.
>>> Plus, the water heater looks like it's had a couple of leaks, might
>>> want to replace it, too, for another $1,500.
>>> Heat/Air is a Carrier unit circa 1984 (house much older), so it's not
>>> like a newer, higher-efficiency unit might not be a good idea anyway.
>>> Not sure of the water heater age, probably not that old.
>>> This is a unit for a 2,000sqft house in suburban Los Angeles.
>>> What surprises me is how quick the repair guys went to "Replace!".
>>> Can't these things be repaired? How complex is a gas furnace anyway?
>>> The repair guys seemed to know their business, I just wonder how much
>>> of their business is doing replacement rather than repair, if you
>>> know what I mean.
>>> Me being a total newbie on this, any advice appreciated.
>>> Thanks.
>> Someone mentioned buying a controller from Graingers for $35. I'd
>> like to see THAT!!
>> You can get a generic controller for about $100 from White-Rodgers,
>> but without a flame probe, and you will proly have to add extra blower
>> relays.
>> If I understood the problem correctly, the flame going out is not a
>> pilot problem -- a pilot problem would prevent any ignition. The
>> problem (now) is the flame doesn't stay on, which could mean a flame
>> probe/sensor problem. Flame probes cost anywhere from $25 to $100.
>> Which doesn't mean the exchanger is *not* cracked, but I think this is
>> dicey to diagnose, as blowers can stir up ambient air around them as
>> well, making match/smoke tests difficult to assess.
>> Rewiring a furnace is not rocket science,
> Neither is spelling "probably".
I think you meant "proberbally".
--
EA
>> but it does requre some
>> familiarity with basic electricity, relays, etc.
>
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Posted by c1gmlm on November 4, 2009, 8:22 pm
wrote:
> > When can these things be repaired, versus being replaced?
> > Forced-air gas heater didn't seem to be sending up any heat today, so
> > I cycled it a bunch of times, then finally descended to the 10x10
> > basement where it lives. Flame would come on, after a minute or three,
> > stay on for 10 seconds, then go out again. =A0Blower kept blowing.
> > System was working fine two days ago - but for some years, it has had
> > the habit of turning on only slowly, after a minute or three of
> > waiting.
> > So I called one of the big chain repair places, they came in, popped
> > off the cover, told me the pilot was getting sucked away, and this was
> > a sign that the whole thing needs replacing, for about $10k. =A0Plus,
> > the water heater looks like it's had a couple of leaks, might want to
> > replace it, too, for another $1,500.
> > Heat/Air is a Carrier unit circa 1984 (house much older), so it's not
> > like a newer, higher-efficiency unit might not be a good idea anyway.
> > Not sure of the water heater age, probably not that old.
> > This is a unit for a 2,000sqft house in suburban Los Angeles.
> > What surprises me is how quick the repair guys went to "Replace!".
> > Can't these things be repaired? =A0How complex is a gas furnace anyway?
> > The repair guys seemed to know their business, I just wonder how much
> > of their business is doing replacement rather than repair, if you know
> > what I mean.
> > Me being a total newbie on this, any advice appreciated.
> > Thanks.
> Someone mentioned buying a controller from Graingers for $35. =A0I'd like=
to
> see THAT!!
> You can get a generic controller for about $100 from White-Rodgers, but
> without a flame probe, and you will proly have to add extra blower relays=
.
> If I understood the problem correctly, the flame going out is not a pilot
> problem -- a pilot problem would prevent any ignition. =A0The problem (no=
w) is
> the flame doesn't stay on, which could mean a flame probe/sensor problem.
> Flame probes cost anywhere from $25 to $100.
> Which doesn't mean the exchanger is *not* cracked, but I think this is di=
cey
> to diagnose, as blowers can stir up ambient air around them as well, maki=
ng
> match/smoke tests difficult to assess.
> Rewiring a furnace is not rocket science, but it does requre some
> familiarity with basic electricity, relays, etc.
> --
> EA
> > Josh- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
We are in the process of replacing our 20 year furnace and air
conditioner with a furnace and air to air heat pump for $6500. That's
not including the federal tax credit of $1500 and the local energy
company's credit of $620. Couldn't pass up the deal. Michigan prices.
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Posted by Bill on November 3, 2009, 11:16 am
"JRStern" wrote in message
> When can these things be repaired, versus being replaced?
As you live in L.A. and it is not very cold there and not very hot in the
summer, I would say get it repaired if the cost to repair is less than about
50% of the replacement cost.
If you lived up north where heating is a major expense, then it would be a
good idea to replace it now rather than later because the energy savings on
new units would help to pay for it.
Or if you lived in Arizona with summer temperatures frequently around 110
F., then replace the A/C as the newer units can save quite a bit of
electricity and A/C is a major expense there.
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Posted by JRStern on November 3, 2009, 11:57 am
On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 08:16:44 -0800, "Bill"
>"JRStern" wrote in message
>> When can these things be repaired, versus being replaced?
>As you live in L.A. and it is not very cold there and not very hot in the
>summer, I would say get it repaired if the cost to repair is less than about
>50% of the replacement cost.
>If you lived up north where heating is a major expense, then it would be a
>good idea to replace it now rather than later because the energy savings on
>new units would help to pay for it.
>Or if you lived in Arizona with summer temperatures frequently around 110
>F., then replace the A/C as the newer units can save quite a bit of
>electricity and A/C is a major expense there.
Complicating life is that the heater is down in a cramped little
basement, do they really have to haul it back to the shop to work on
anyway?
BTW I also talked to the guy who gave me the quotes yesterday (and is
giving me a little high-pressure, it's in his job description, but
when I told him I just have to get some more bids, he was decent about
it), I said that $1500 for the water heater sounded high, and he said
yes, it's the cramped location, and see if other bids don't say the
same.
Thanks.
J.
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Posted by on November 4, 2009, 9:41 am
> "JRStern" =A0wrote in message
> > When can these things be repaired, versus being replaced?
> As you live in L.A. and it is not very cold there and not very hot in the
> summer, I would say get it repaired if the cost to repair is less than ab=
out
> 50% of the replacement cost.
IMO, You'd have to be nuts to put anyhwere near 50% of the replacement
cost into a 25 year old gas furnace. That is the typical life
expectancy for units of that era. With all the rebates and credits
available around here, NJ, which certainly is one of the more
expensive area, you can get a new furance and AC installed for about
$5000 after rebates and tax credit. Now way I'd sink say $2400 into
a 25 year old unit.
> If you lived up north where heating is a major expense, then it would be =
a
> good idea to replace it now rather than later because the energy savings =
on
> new units would help to pay for it.
How about after he spends $2400 on it, two year later it has another
major failure?
> Or if you lived in Arizona with summer temperatures frequently around 110
> F., then replace the A/C as the newer units can save quite a bit of
> electricity and A/C is a major expense there.
Replacing just the AC on a 25 year old gas furnace makes no sense to
me. Especially with all the rebates and credits available right now
that knock thousands off the actual cost.
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>>> Forced-air gas heater didn't seem to be sending up any heat today, so
>>> I cycled it a bunch of times, then finally descended to the 10x10
>>> basement where it lives. Flame would come on, after a minute or
>>> three, stay on for 10 seconds, then go out again. Blower kept
>>> blowing.
>>> System was working fine two days ago - but for some years, it has had
>>> the habit of turning on only slowly, after a minute or three of
>>> waiting.
>>> So I called one of the big chain repair places, they came in, popped
>>> off the cover, told me the pilot was getting sucked away, and this
>>> was a sign that the whole thing needs replacing, for about $10k.
>>> Plus, the water heater looks like it's had a couple of leaks, might
>>> want to replace it, too, for another $1,500.
>>> Heat/Air is a Carrier unit circa 1984 (house much older), so it's not
>>> like a newer, higher-efficiency unit might not be a good idea anyway.
>>> Not sure of the water heater age, probably not that old.
>>> This is a unit for a 2,000sqft house in suburban Los Angeles.
>>> What surprises me is how quick the repair guys went to "Replace!".
>>> Can't these things be repaired? How complex is a gas furnace anyway?
>>> The repair guys seemed to know their business, I just wonder how much
>>> of their business is doing replacement rather than repair, if you
>>> know what I mean.
>>> Me being a total newbie on this, any advice appreciated.
>>> Thanks.