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Home Repair - - If it ain't broken, don't fix it. Otherwise look here.
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Posted by bonnie on June 12, 2008, 6:37 pm
There is a space between my Bilco door and the concrete foundation that
is about 3 inches wide. Between the door and the foundation is wood and
unfortunately it leaks quite a bit there. The previous owners (there for
20 years) said it leaked maybe twice. Bull.
I know it wasn't a definitive fix but I tried caulking above it to
prevent the rainwater from seeping down. I can't seem to get it right
though. So I was thinking of cleaning it up as best I could from
underneath and using hydraulic cement (with gloved hands). It would
overlay surfaces made of cement, wood, and metal, in that order.
I don't really like this solution because the water will continue to rot
the wood, even though it may not leak into the basement. But outside of
removing the whole Bilco assembly and part of my deck, I don't see any
way around it.
As usual, any advise is much appreciated.
thanks,
bonnie
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Posted by Pipedown on June 12, 2008, 7:04 pm
Like you I would start over by cleaning out as much old caulk, rotten wood
and decayed concrete as possible. Might even use a pressure washer and or
compressed air to get where you can't reach.
I don't think "hydrolic cement" is necessary, this isn't underwarer and any
concrete or mortar will block water once cured anyway. Mortar isn't very
strong if you go too big, you need some aggragate for strength. Use a
general concrete mix if you can build a form around the gap and pour it in
you are all set. Grout could also be used but you would need a very tight
form as it goes in almost like a liquid, maybe not, 3" is a bit much for
grout
If the access is difficult and the door otherwise sturdy and firm then you
might fill the void with expanding foam insulation. With the nozzle on the
can you can inject it into some very tight spaces and it will expand to fill
every nitch even upward (cement will always follow gravity down and often
flows out of forms). If not exposed, this should last as long as a cement
patch. Be sure to get the right foam, some of it is for caulking purposes
dosen't expand much and isn't very hard after curing. Read the can, it will
be obvious. Best part is if you do replace the door, this stuff can be
pulled out easily so you can make a definative fix later. Cement will
require some bashing at least.
> There is a space between my Bilco door and the concrete foundation that
> is about 3 inches wide. Between the door and the foundation is wood and
> unfortunately it leaks quite a bit there. The previous owners (there for
> 20 years) said it leaked maybe twice. Bull.
>
> I know it wasn't a definitive fix but I tried caulking above it to
> prevent the rainwater from seeping down. I can't seem to get it right
> though. So I was thinking of cleaning it up as best I could from
> underneath and using hydraulic cement (with gloved hands). It would
> overlay surfaces made of cement, wood, and metal, in that order.
>
> I don't really like this solution because the water will continue to rot
> the wood, even though it may not leak into the basement. But outside of
> removing the whole Bilco assembly and part of my deck, I don't see any
> way around it.
>
> As usual, any advise is much appreciated.
>
> thanks,
> bonnie
>
>
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Posted by bonnie on June 12, 2008, 7:31 pm
Using a pressure washer is a good idea.
I obviously failed to mention that if I'm standing in the basement, the
space is overhead. Regular concrete will only drip out before it
sets...I think. Hydraulic cement hardens much faster, I believe.
And I think foam insulation is water resistant, not water proof. But I
may fill some of the void with it so the cement has something against it
in the back.
I had another idea. To systematically use water from the garden hose to
see exactly where the water is coming from.
bonnie
: Like you I would start over by cleaning out as much old caulk, rotten
wood
: and decayed concrete as possible. Might even use a pressure washer
and or
: compressed air to get where you can't reach.
:
: I don't think "hydrolic cement" is necessary, this isn't underwarer
and any
: concrete or mortar will block water once cured anyway. Mortar isn't
very
: strong if you go too big, you need some aggragate for strength. Use a
: general concrete mix if you can build a form around the gap and pour
it in
: you are all set. Grout could also be used but you would need a very
tight
: form as it goes in almost like a liquid, maybe not, 3" is a bit much
for
: grout
:
: If the access is difficult and the door otherwise sturdy and firm then
you
: might fill the void with expanding foam insulation. With the nozzle
on the
: can you can inject it into some very tight spaces and it will expand
to fill
: every nitch even upward (cement will always follow gravity down and
often
: flows out of forms). If not exposed, this should last as long as a
cement
: patch. Be sure to get the right foam, some of it is for caulking
purposes
: dosen't expand much and isn't very hard after curing. Read the can,
it will
: be obvious. Best part is if you do replace the door, this stuff can
be
: pulled out easily so you can make a definative fix later. Cement will
: require some bashing at least.
:
: > There is a space between my Bilco door and the concrete foundation
that
: > is about 3 inches wide. Between the door and the foundation is wood
and
: > unfortunately it leaks quite a bit there. The previous owners (there
for
: > 20 years) said it leaked maybe twice. Bull.
: >
: > I know it wasn't a definitive fix but I tried caulking above it to
: > prevent the rainwater from seeping down. I can't seem to get it
right
: > though. So I was thinking of cleaning it up as best I could from
: > underneath and using hydraulic cement (with gloved hands). It would
: > overlay surfaces made of cement, wood, and metal, in that order.
: >
: > I don't really like this solution because the water will continue to
rot
: > the wood, even though it may not leak into the basement. But outside
of
: > removing the whole Bilco assembly and part of my deck, I don't see
any
: > way around it.
: >
: > As usual, any advise is much appreciated.
: >
: > thanks,
: > bonnie
: >
: >
:
:
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Posted by SteveB on June 12, 2008, 9:21 pm
bonnie wrote:
> Using a pressure washer is a good idea.
>
> I obviously failed to mention that if I'm standing in the basement,
> the space is overhead. Regular concrete will only drip out before it
> sets...I think. Hydraulic cement hardens much faster, I believe.
>
> And I think foam insulation is water resistant, not water proof. But
> I may fill some of the void with it so the cement has something
> against it in the back.
>
> I had another idea. To systematically use water from the garden hose
> to see exactly where the water is coming from.
Hydraulic concrete _expands_ as it cures. It's for filling things like
holes around pipes.
You probably just need a good stiff mixture of regular concrete. I
would stay away from quick-setting concrete because it will set faster
than you can work it.
--
Steve Bell
New Life Home Improvement
Arlington, TX
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Posted by Reno on June 13, 2008, 3:28 pm
@registered.motzarella.org:
There are a few different things called "hydraulic cement" - some do expand
as another poster said. You could use normal thinset (used to set tiles)
and use acrylic admix instead of water to make it adhere better and more
waterproof. The admix is sold where they sell thinset. It does set very
quickly, about 15 minutes, so you have to plan it out carefully and work
quickly. Some stores sell a premium thinset which is slightly easier to
work with and the cost is cheap enough to make that worthwhile. Use all
admix, no water at all, for the thinset.
Use several thin layers instead of one thick layer. If you have a problem
with crossing a deep space use plastic mesh to support the first layer of
thinset. Don't use the metal mesh that is sold for plastering because it
will rust and expand and cause the cement to break loose. You can add
layers on top of each other or beside each other as soon as it is dry
enough that it is hard enough that the second coat doesn't cause the first
coat to move around. Since it will be exposed to air it needs to be kept
damp to cure properly - for at least a day, two days is better.
As with any glue type job, cleanliness counts for more than anything. If
the surfaces are perfectly clean and dry almost anything will stick and if
there is any contamination of the surfaces almost nothing will stick.
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