moving steam radiator

Posted by rangerssuck on October 5, 2009, 12:39 pm

I need to move a steam radiator about six feet from its current
location. This is a single pipe system with black pipe. The piping is
all accessible in the basement.

I have zero experience working with iron pipe, but I'm pretty good
with copper. I know that part of the boiler plumbing is copper (the
manifold coming out of the boiler).

Is there any reason that I couldn't go back to a convenient joint,
install a dielectric union, and finish the job in copper (with another
dielectric union at the radiator end)?

OK, I just went downstairs and took a look at the boiler installation.
Where the iron steam pipes connect to the copper manifold, they used
copper threaded adapters with no dielectric unions. Where the
condensate pipe attaches, they used compression fitting , which, I
guess could be an insulator, but since the steam pipes are tied
together, I'd have no way to check that.

So, is it possible that in a steam pipe, which is not under water all
the time like the condensate pipe is, that you don't need dielectric
isolation between iron and copper? This boiler was installed 24 years
ago, and there's no visible sign of corrosion at these joints.

I am aware of the slope requirements, and I have plenty of headroom to
do that. I don't want to use iron because, as I said, I have zero
experience with that. I don't have threading equipment, and even
though I'll measure twenty times before I cut once, I don't have much
confidence that everything will line up on the first try, and that's
yet another trip to the supplier to get yet another piece of pipe
threaded.

Posted by Joe on October 5, 2009, 2:00 pm

> I need to move a steam radiator about six feet from its current
> location. This is a single pipe system with black pipe. The piping is
> all accessible in the basement.
> I have zero experience working with iron pipe, but I'm pretty good
> with copper. I know that part of the boiler plumbing is copper (the
> manifold coming out of the boiler).
> Is there any reason that I couldn't go back to a convenient joint,
> install a dielectric union, and finish the job in copper (with another

Maybe because dielectric unions don't survive all that well with
steam.

> snip<

> So, is it possible that in a steam pipe, which is not under water all
> the time like the condensate pipe is, that you don't need dielectric
> isolation between iron and copper? This boiler was installed 24 years
> ago, and there's no visible sign of corrosion at these joints.

>snip<

If you go iron>>copper>>copper>>iron the electrolysis currents oppose

Posted by rangerssuck on October 5, 2009, 3:13 pm

> > I need to move a steam radiator about six feet from its current
> > location. This is a single pipe system with black pipe. The piping is
> > all accessible in the basement.
> > I have zero experience working with iron pipe, but I'm pretty good
> > with copper. I know that part of the boiler plumbing is copper (the
> > manifold coming out of the boiler).
> > Is there any reason that I couldn't go back to a convenient joint,
> > install a dielectric union, and finish the job in copper (with another

> Maybe because dielectric unions don't survive all that well with
> steam.

> > snip<
> > So, is it possible that in a steam pipe, which is not under water all
> > the time like the condensate pipe is, that you don't need dielectric
> > isolation between iron and copper? This boiler was installed 24 years
> > ago, and there's no visible sign of corrosion at these joints.
> >snip<
> If you go iron>>copper>>copper>>iron the electrolysis currents oppose

> one anther. No current flow, no corrosion. FWIW, cutting and threading
> black iron is harder work than copper, so you may want to get an
> estimate from a pro. But check tool rental places for a power threader/
> cutter outfit. If the cost is reasonable, take it home and you could
> knock the job together in a couple of hours. Changing the materials in
> a 24year old installation that has worked perfectly all this time just
> doesn't seem like a good idea. The old mantra, "there are tricks in
> every trade" is at work here. And by the way, if you don't have a
> monster pipe wrench (depending on your pipe size, natch) put one on
> your shopping/renting =A0list. Good luck.
> Joe

Given that the electrolysis cancels out and that copper is easier to
work with than iron, AND that this is one radiator at the far end of a
run, why WOULDN'T copper be a good idea?

If I was in the mood for an adventure, I'd surely rent the tools and
have at it, but I really just want to get this done without spending
an arm and a leg (and a month).

Posted by Ed Pawlowski on October 5, 2009, 10:04 pm

> Is there any reason that I couldn't go back to a convenient joint,
> install a dielectric union, and finish the job in copper (with another

Maybe because dielectric unions don't survive all that well with
steam.

> snip<

>snip<

If you go iron>>copper>>copper>>iron the electrolysis currents oppose

one anther. No current flow, no corrosion. FWIW, cutting and threading
black iron is harder work than copper, so you may want to get an
estimate from a pro. But check tool rental places for a power threader/
cutter outfit. If the cost is reasonable, take it home and you could
knock the job together in a couple of hours. Changing the materials in
a 24year old installation that has worked perfectly all this time just
doesn't seem like a good idea. The old mantra, "there are tricks in
every trade" is at work here. And by the way, if you don't have a
monster pipe wrench (depending on your pipe size, natch) put one on
your shopping/renting list. Good luck.

**********************************************************************

Couple of comments.

Agree on the not touching what works. The joints of that 24 year old pipe
may not show corrosion, but once you take them apart, anything can be
lurking. Don't attempt that job on a day that the heat "must" be back
together. I don't know about mixing the two materials though. Working with
pipe is not difficult if you have easy access to a pipe threading setup.
Running 10 miles to the hardware store at every bend is not so easy. Look
into borrowing or renting the equipment. Threading by hand is not all that
hard up to about 1 1/2".

Condensate pipe don't corrode because they are under water al the time, they
corrode from carbonic acid. Carbonic acid is formed in steam systems when
carbon dioxide reacts with water to form carbonic acid

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