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sill plate replacement in basement revisited

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sill plate replacement in basement revisited Limp Arbor 02-26-2008
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Posted by Limp Arbor on February 28, 2008, 8:25 am

<snip>

>
> Rereading the above, it occurs to me that taking down the brick may be
> indicated anyway- if the sill is rotted, how did it get wet? Rotten sill
> behind brick on a brick ledge below sill level, indicates to me that the
> flashing and sheathing were not done properly. Brick is not waterproof,
> and if weep holes were blocked or omitted, the cavity between brick and
> sheathing may actually be collecting water. Sometimes, taking it all
> apart and putting it back together correctly, is the only long-term fix.
>

Yes the non-existent flashing and abscence of weep holes contributed
to the termite damage for sure. This will be fixed.

I do have an idea on how to do this and will probably try it if
I can't come up with a better way.

diagram best viewed in fixed font (courier).

End view:

| |
Outside | |
wall | |
Floor |_____|
__________________________________|_____|
________________________________________|
| | | | | |
| | | | Temporary | |
| | Temporary | | notched | |
| | blocking | | blocking | |
| | installed | | _________| |
|__|_____________|__|____/ ____|__|
| | | _|_______|sill
Jacking | | | | |
beam | | | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
|__|__| | |
Concrete
wall

Kind of tough to draw the notched blocking the way I would make it
but
the idea would be for the notched blocking to tie into the floor
joist
and support each stud of the outside wall. The other straight blocks
would keep the joist from twisting. The angle will be just enough
to allow me to get in the new 2x6 sill plate.

I don't need to 'lift' (maybe a CH) the house at this point,
just support it.

The floor above has tile in a 1/2 bath and linoleum in a laundry room
so if I need to I could pull the tile and tie in some more support
from above and even into the studs if necessary.


Radiant Heat 468x60
Posted by BDBConstruction on February 28, 2008, 11:46 am

> End view:
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 | =A0 =
=A0 |
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Outside =A0 | =A0 =A0 |
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0wall =A0 | =A0 =A0 =
|
> Floor =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 |_____|
> __________________________________|_____|
> ________________________________________|
> =A0 | =A0| =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 | =A0| =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0| =A0=
|
> =A0 | =A0| =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 | =A0| Temporary =A0 =A0| =A0|
> =A0 | =A0| Temporary =A0 | =A0| notched =A0 =A0 =A0| =A0|
> =A0 | =A0| =A0blocking =A0 | =A0| blocking =A0 =A0 | =A0|
> =A0 | =A0| =A0installed =A0| =A0| =A0 =A0 _________| =A0|
> =A0 |__|_____________|__|____/ =A0 =A0 ____|__|
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 | =A0| =A0| =A0 =A0 =A0_|_______|sill
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Jacking =A0| =A0| =A0| =A0 =A0 | =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 |
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 beam =A0 =A0| =A0| =A0| =A0 =A0 | =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 |
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 | =A0| =A0| =A0 =A0 | =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
|
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 | =A0| =A0| =A0 =A0 | =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
|
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 |__|__| =A0 =A0 | =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 |
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Concrete
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0wall
>


No dice, keep trying. The result of this will be 0.0000" of movement
at the outside wall and you will, in effect, simply shove the outer
joist and sheathing right by the outside wall shearing it at the
bottom plate. This would happen on a single story, vinyl sided house.
Forget about brick. You will be unable to make a connection at the
blocking/joists that will be anywhere near sufficient to raise the
outside wall cantilevered a foot or more beyond. Additionaly as I
recall in your OP you said the rim was rotted where does that repair
figure in to this plan. Over and above, you are going to have to
raise the structure substantially more than the CH you keep
referencing. New material is thicker even with a 1 for 1 replacement,
higher MC, high low spots, and so on. You may be looking at a CH from
king kongs mama, something in the neigborhood of 1/16th would be the
minimum and thats if the floor hasnt dropped at all due to the rot/
termites.

What is you reasoning for not at least getting a quote on this repair
from a professional? You are already ahead of the game financially as
you said you repaired a section with perpendicular joists yourself.
You are potentially looking at comprimising the floor(s) above, the
brick, possibly affecting windows and doors nearby, and the value of
your home. It would at least be worth a couple phone calls.

Mark

Posted by Limp Arbor on February 28, 2008, 1:50 pm
wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > End view:
>
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 | =
=A0 =A0 |
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Outside =A0 | =A0 =A0 |
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0wall =A0 | =A0 =
=A0 |
> > Floor =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 |_____|
> > __________________________________|_____|
> > ________________________________________|
> > =A0 | =A0| =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 | =A0| =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0| =
=A0|
> > =A0 | =A0| =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 | =A0| Temporary =A0 =A0| =A0|
> > =A0 | =A0| Temporary =A0 | =A0| notched =A0 =A0 =A0| =A0|
> > =A0 | =A0| =A0blocking =A0 | =A0| blocking =A0 =A0 | =A0|
> > =A0 | =A0| =A0installed =A0| =A0| =A0 =A0 _________| =A0|
> > =A0 |__|_____________|__|____/ =A0 =A0 ____|__|
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 | =A0| =A0| =A0 =A0 =A0_|_______|sil=
l
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Jacking =A0| =A0| =A0| =A0 =A0 | =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 |
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 beam =A0 =A0| =A0| =A0| =A0 =A0 | =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 |
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 | =A0| =A0| =A0 =A0 | =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 |
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 | =A0| =A0| =A0 =A0 | =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 |
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 |__|__| =A0 =A0 | =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 |
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Concrete
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0wall
>
> No dice, keep trying. The result of this will be 0.0000" of movement
> at the outside wall and you will, in effect, simply shove the outer
> joist and sheathing right by the outside wall shearing it at the
> bottom plate. This would happen on a single story, vinyl sided house.
> Forget about brick. You will be unable to make a connection at the
> blocking/joists that will be anywhere near sufficient to raise the
> outside wall cantilevered a foot or more beyond. Additionaly as I
> recall in your OP you said the rim was rotted where does that repair
> figure in to this plan. =A0Over and above, you are going to have to
> raise the structure substantially more than the CH you keep
> referencing. New material is thicker even with a 1 for 1 replacement,
> higher MC, high low spots, and so on. You may be looking at a CH from
> king kongs mama, something in the neigborhood of 1/16th would be the
> minimum and thats if the floor hasnt dropped at all due to the rot/
> termites.
>
> What is you reasoning for not at least getting a quote on this repair
> from a professional? You are already ahead of the game financially as
> you said you repaired a section with perpendicular joists yourself.
> You are potentially looking at comprimising the floor(s) above, the
> brick, possibly affecting windows and doors nearby, and the value of
> your home. It would at least be worth a couple phone calls.
>

The brick is only a veneer that runs 3/4 of the way up the first story
and is resting on the solid pour conrete porch. The top of the brick
is at least 1/2" away from the asbestos siding that is under the vinyl
siding.

I Got an estimate from a foundation repair company for $3,500 to do
the entire 40'. This was after about 20 calls that were not answered
or contractors that "don't handle that kind of work". This did not
include dealing with permits, sill sealant, or anchors that the
building inspector wants. Their estimate was to replace damaged sill
and install PT end blocking to reinforce the damaged rim/end joist. I
need this permitted and inspected in case I ever want to sell because
any repair will be obvious. I did get one other estimate from a local
contractor to rip down the brick, do the repairs from the outside and
reinstall brick for $8,000. I estimate that his estimate was way too
low.

What I don't see is how you think the above method I suggest would
raise the outer joist and sheathing and not the bottom plate. I could
see the joist with the jacking beam under it raising and cracking the
subfloor while the blocking broke loose but not what you suggest.


Posted by dpb on February 28, 2008, 1:57 pm
Limp Arbor wrote:
...

rec.woodworking culled as this is nothing to do w/ woodworking...

> I Got an estimate from a foundation repair company for $3,500 to do
> the entire 40'. ...

Sounds like a bargain even if you have to work with them to handle some
of the details--

--

Posted by BDBConstruction on February 28, 2008, 5:46 pm

> What I don't see is how you think the above method I suggest would
> raise the outer joist and sheathing and not the bottom plate. =A0I could
> see the joist with the jacking beam under it raising and cracking the
> subfloor while the blocking broke loose but not what you suggest.- Hide qu=
oted text -

You are confusing your terms, your last sentence is correct. The joist
you proposing to jack against in your ASCII "is" the outer joist.
Outboud of that, under the outside wall, is the rim board/rim joist/
band. I call it a rim board when sitting on continuous foundation, and
rim joist or header when not. Regardless, what I said was, "The result
of this will be 0.0000" of movement at the outside wall". This means
the outside wall, floor sheating, rim joist, and the sill, will not go
up. All that will go up will be the outer joist you are jacking on,
and the sub/finish floor above, inbound of the wall. You are basically
shoving the floor up through the interior of the house hoping that the
strength of your blocking (which there is none) and the floor
sheathing (again none), will lift the walls. This will not happen. And
again, even if it did, it doesnt facilitate changing the damaged rim.
What _will_ happen is the floor sheathing will fail at the inner edge
of the outside wall and for conversation sake if jacking continued it
would simply tear the subfloor and finish floor free leaving the
outside wall where it is. Jacking would become progressively easier
and easier once the floor is torn free of the outside walls.

Mark

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