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single or double pole switch for 240V baseboard heater

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single or double pole switch for 240V baseboard heater deans@wdeans.com 09-10-2006
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Posted by Jeff Wisnia on September 10, 2006, 12:08 pm
Rich256 wrote:

> deans@wdeans.com wrote:
>
>> peter wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> Greetings,
>>>>
>>>> Part A:
>>>> I have 240V baseboard heaters with the termostat inside the heater. I
>>>> want to put wall switches in the same place as the light switches so
>>>> that I can turn off the heaters when I leave the room without getting
>>>> down on the ground to adjust the thermostat. I know that a single pole
>>>> switch will work but I wanted to know if there was any reason the code
>>>> required a double pole switch? Thanks!
>>>
>>> 120V circuit has a neutral and a hot; if you stand in a bath tub and
>>> touch
>>> the two wires one by one, you will get shocked by the hot, and not by
>>> the
>>> neutral
>>>
>>> 240V circuit has no neutral; it has two hots (each one is 120V
>>> relative to
>>> ground). If you touch the two wires one by one, you get shocked twice.
>>>
>>> If you switch off only one hot, then the heater wiring is still carrying
>>> 120V. This is potentially dangerous.
>>
>>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> I fail to understand why it is dangerous for the wire to be carrying
>> 120V into the heater. So what? The (optional add-in) integrated
>> thermostat only breaks one pole. Are you saying it is dangerous?
>> Based on your posting alone it appears that if one is dangerous then
>> the other must be as well.
>>
>> Please explain.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> William
>>
>
> What you are saying is true but I expect code requires a double pole.
> Someone working on the unit would not depend on the thermostat to remove
> all power but would most likely expect it to be removed by the switch.
>
> Kind of like power to a lamp with a non polarized plug being plugged
> into a switchable socket. It is possible for the lamp to have voltage
> even with the switch turned off.

I take it you meant to say, "even with the switch ON THE LAMP turned off"

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"What do you expect from a pig but a grunt?"

Posted by Mark Lloyd on September 10, 2006, 3:56 pm

>deans@wdeans.com wrote:
>> peter wrote:
>>>> Greetings,
>>>>
>>>> Part A:
>>>> I have 240V baseboard heaters with the termostat inside the heater. I
>>>> want to put wall switches in the same place as the light switches so
>>>> that I can turn off the heaters when I leave the room without getting
>>>> down on the ground to adjust the thermostat. I know that a single pole
>>>> switch will work but I wanted to know if there was any reason the code
>>>> required a double pole switch? Thanks!
>>> 120V circuit has a neutral and a hot; if you stand in a bath tub and touch
>>> the two wires one by one, you will get shocked by the hot, and not by the
>>> neutral
>>>
>>> 240V circuit has no neutral; it has two hots (each one is 120V relative to
>>> ground). If you touch the two wires one by one, you get shocked twice.
>>>
>>> If you switch off only one hot, then the heater wiring is still carrying
>>> 120V. This is potentially dangerous.
>>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> I fail to understand why it is dangerous for the wire to be carrying
>> 120V into the heater. So what? The (optional add-in) integrated
>> thermostat only breaks one pole. Are you saying it is dangerous?
>> Based on your posting alone it appears that if one is dangerous then
>> the other must be as well.
>>
>> Please explain.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> William
>>
>
>What you are saying is true but I expect code requires a double pole.
>Someone working on the unit would not depend on the thermostat to remove
>all power but would most likely expect it to be removed by the switch.
>
>Kind of like power to a lamp with a non polarized plug being plugged
>into a switchable socket. It is possible for the lamp to have voltage
>even with the switch turned off.

That reminds me of the way I first learned to connect 3-way light
switches. It's considered unsafe because the light can be off and
still have 120V connected to it.
--
106 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"How could you ask be to believe in God when there's
absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster

Posted by Rich256 on September 10, 2006, 6:00 pm
Mark Lloyd wrote:
>
>> deans@wdeans.com wrote:
>>> peter wrote:
>>>>> Greetings,
>>>>>
>>>>> Part A:
>>>>> I have 240V baseboard heaters with the termostat inside the heater. I
>>>>> want to put wall switches in the same place as the light switches so
>>>>> that I can turn off the heaters when I leave the room without getting
>>>>> down on the ground to adjust the thermostat. I know that a single pole
>>>>> switch will work but I wanted to know if there was any reason the code
>>>>> required a double pole switch? Thanks!
>>>> 120V circuit has a neutral and a hot; if you stand in a bath tub and touch
>>>> the two wires one by one, you will get shocked by the hot, and not by the
>>>> neutral
>>>>
>>>> 240V circuit has no neutral; it has two hots (each one is 120V relative to
>>>> ground). If you touch the two wires one by one, you get shocked twice.
>>>>
>>>> If you switch off only one hot, then the heater wiring is still carrying
>>>> 120V. This is potentially dangerous.
>>> Greetings,
>>>
>>> I fail to understand why it is dangerous for the wire to be carrying
>>> 120V into the heater. So what? The (optional add-in) integrated
>>> thermostat only breaks one pole. Are you saying it is dangerous?
>>> Based on your posting alone it appears that if one is dangerous then
>>> the other must be as well.
>>>
>>> Please explain.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> William
>>>
>> What you are saying is true but I expect code requires a double pole.
>> Someone working on the unit would not depend on the thermostat to remove
>> all power but would most likely expect it to be removed by the switch.
>>
>> Kind of like power to a lamp with a non polarized plug being plugged
>> into a switchable socket. It is possible for the lamp to have voltage
>> even with the switch turned off.
>
> That reminds me of the way I first learned to connect 3-way light
> switches. It's considered unsafe because the light can be off and
> still have 120V connected to it.


Yeah, but as I posted, I don't know where my mind what when I made that
last statement. Immediately after I hit the send button I realized what
I had said. With the switch off there should not be any voltage on the
lamp.

If plugged into an ordinary socket it could have voltage on the outside
rim of the socket.

Posted by HeatMan on September 10, 2006, 12:44 pm
I am happy as (insert expletive here) that you are NOT my landlord.

You've asked nearly the exact same question three times. You must be a real
cheap person.

FWIW, back when I rented, I (as the tenant) was responsible for the
utilities.

> Greetings,
>
> Part A:
> I have 240V baseboard heaters with the termostat inside the heater. I
> want to put wall switches in the same place as the light switches so
> that I can turn off the heaters when I leave the room without getting
> down on the ground to adjust the thermostat. I know that a single pole
> switch will work but I wanted to know if there was any reason the code
> required a double pole switch? Thanks!
>
> Part B:
> The baseboard heaters are 2000W. If I put 2 of them on the same 20A
> circuit I am at 83% of the rated breaker capacity (I am using standard
> Siemens breakers). Do I really need to put each one on its own
> breaker?
>
> Thank you for your time,
> William
>



Posted by Jeff Wisnia on September 10, 2006, 1:10 pm
HeatMan wrote:

> I am happy as (insert expletive here) that you are NOT my landlord.
>
> You've asked nearly the exact same question three times. You must be a real
> cheap person.
>
> FWIW, back when I rented, I (as the tenant) was responsible for the
> utilities.
>
>
>>Greetings,
>>
>>Part A:
>>I have 240V baseboard heaters with the termostat inside the heater. I
>>want to put wall switches in the same place as the light switches so
>>that I can turn off the heaters when I leave the room without getting
>>down on the ground to adjust the thermostat. I know that a single pole
>>switch will work but I wanted to know if there was any reason the code
>>required a double pole switch? Thanks!
>>
>>Part B:
>>The baseboard heaters are 2000W. If I put 2 of them on the same 20A
>>circuit I am at 83% of the rated breaker capacity (I am using standard
>>Siemens breakers). Do I really need to put each one on its own
>>breaker?
>>
>>Thank you for your time,
>>William
>>
>
>
>

He's probably too cheap to convert that apartment to separate metering
so the tenant can pay for the electricity, and would then also have an
incentive not to waste it.

Or, maybe he's renting an "illegal apartment" in an area zoned only for
single family housing and can't do that. <G>

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"What do you expect from a pig but a grunt?"

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