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two problems... Nate Nagel 12-30-2007
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Posted by Pete C. on December 30, 2007, 11:59 am
Nate Nagel wrote:
>
> KLS wrote:
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>got home from xmas road trip last night. furnace was not working and
> >>house was a chilly 48 degrees inside (thermostat was set to 57 while I
> >>was away.) Fortunately I'd drained all the plumbing just in case it got
> >>really cold and something bad happened, and also it never got seriously
> >>below freezing while I was away. I ASSumed that the ignitor had gone
> >>Tango Uniform again but I simply power cycled the furnace and it fired
> >>right up and has run through several cycles. I can only assume that it
> >>failed to ignite at some point while I was away and the thermocouple
> >>shut it down. I've had the water heater go out a couple times, but only
> >>a couple, over the past year. Never often enough to consider it a
> >>problem and call in a repairman. I'm starting to wonder if there's an
> >>issue with the gas service (water?) but I had the water heater shut off
> >>while I was away so I couldn't see if the pilot on the heater had blown
> >>out as well. Any ideas? I can deal with relighting the water heater
> >>every couple months but not so much with the furnace shutting off while
> >>I'm away.
> >
> >
> > You mention that the water heater pilot light has also gone out a
> > couple times. Have you checked to see whether you might have one of
> > those serendipitous drafts that happen only on certain windy days? I
> > had a house with this kind of strange episodic event, and finally I
> > figured out it was from a drafty window, and once I blocked that off,
> > all was well.
>
> I suppose that is possible; I have been trying to track down and spray
> foam all possible sources of draft, although I'm certain that I haven't
> found all of them yet.

Does the chimney connection have a barometric damper in proper
adjustment?

Posted by Nate Nagel on December 30, 2007, 12:06 pm
Pete C. wrote:
> Nate Nagel wrote:
>
>>KLS wrote:
>>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>got home from xmas road trip last night. furnace was not working and
>>>>house was a chilly 48 degrees inside (thermostat was set to 57 while I
>>>>was away.) Fortunately I'd drained all the plumbing just in case it got
>>>>really cold and something bad happened, and also it never got seriously
>>>>below freezing while I was away. I ASSumed that the ignitor had gone
>>>>Tango Uniform again but I simply power cycled the furnace and it fired
>>>>right up and has run through several cycles. I can only assume that it
>>>>failed to ignite at some point while I was away and the thermocouple
>>>>shut it down. I've had the water heater go out a couple times, but only
>>>>a couple, over the past year. Never often enough to consider it a
>>>>problem and call in a repairman. I'm starting to wonder if there's an
>>>>issue with the gas service (water?) but I had the water heater shut off
>>>>while I was away so I couldn't see if the pilot on the heater had blown
>>>>out as well. Any ideas? I can deal with relighting the water heater
>>>>every couple months but not so much with the furnace shutting off while
>>>>I'm away.
>>>
>>>
>>>You mention that the water heater pilot light has also gone out a
>>>couple times. Have you checked to see whether you might have one of
>>>those serendipitous drafts that happen only on certain windy days? I
>>>had a house with this kind of strange episodic event, and finally I
>>>figured out it was from a drafty window, and once I blocked that off,
>>>all was well.
>>
>>I suppose that is possible; I have been trying to track down and spray
>>foam all possible sources of draft, although I'm certain that I haven't
>>found all of them yet.
>
>
> Does the chimney connection have a barometric damper in proper
> adjustment?

forgot to mention, it is a "90 plus" furnace with separate PVC pipes for
intake and exhaust - chimney is only for the water heater at this time
(and a separate flue for the fireplace above.) Dunno if there is any
kind of damper on the PVC, doesn't appear to be.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Posted by Pete C. on December 30, 2007, 12:55 pm
Nate Nagel wrote:
>
> Pete C. wrote:
> > Nate Nagel wrote:
> >
> >>KLS wrote:
> >>
> >>>wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>got home from xmas road trip last night. furnace was not working and
> >>>>house was a chilly 48 degrees inside (thermostat was set to 57 while I
> >>>>was away.) Fortunately I'd drained all the plumbing just in case it got
> >>>>really cold and something bad happened, and also it never got seriously
> >>>>below freezing while I was away. I ASSumed that the ignitor had gone
> >>>>Tango Uniform again but I simply power cycled the furnace and it fired
> >>>>right up and has run through several cycles. I can only assume that it
> >>>>failed to ignite at some point while I was away and the thermocouple
> >>>>shut it down. I've had the water heater go out a couple times, but only
> >>>>a couple, over the past year. Never often enough to consider it a
> >>>>problem and call in a repairman. I'm starting to wonder if there's an
> >>>>issue with the gas service (water?) but I had the water heater shut off
> >>>>while I was away so I couldn't see if the pilot on the heater had blown
> >>>>out as well. Any ideas? I can deal with relighting the water heater
> >>>>every couple months but not so much with the furnace shutting off while
> >>>>I'm away.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>You mention that the water heater pilot light has also gone out a
> >>>couple times. Have you checked to see whether you might have one of
> >>>those serendipitous drafts that happen only on certain windy days? I
> >>>had a house with this kind of strange episodic event, and finally I
> >>>figured out it was from a drafty window, and once I blocked that off,
> >>>all was well.
> >>
> >>I suppose that is possible; I have been trying to track down and spray
> >>foam all possible sources of draft, although I'm certain that I haven't
> >>found all of them yet.
> >
> >
> > Does the chimney connection have a barometric damper in proper
> > adjustment?
>
> forgot to mention, it is a "90 plus" furnace with separate PVC pipes for
> intake and exhaust - chimney is only for the water heater at this time
> (and a separate flue for the fireplace above.) Dunno if there is any
> kind of damper on the PVC, doesn't appear to be.

I don't think those direct vent units are designed to have / need
barometric dampers. At any rate, now that we know that the water heater
and the furnace have entirely separate venting, it makes the gas supply
more suspect if both appliances are experiencing these outages. Is it
possible that there is undersized gas piping or other restriction
causing a pressure drop when both units are trying to fire at the same
time? Bad regulator or meter? If both appliances are experiencing the
problem it doesn't seem unreasonable to ass the gas company to check
things up through their meter at least.

Posted by George on December 30, 2007, 12:54 pm
Nate Nagel wrote:
> first problem...
>
> got home from xmas road trip last night. furnace was not working and
> house was a chilly 48 degrees inside (thermostat was set to 57 while I
> was away.) Fortunately I'd drained all the plumbing just in case it got
> really cold and something bad happened, and also it never got seriously
> below freezing while I was away. I ASSumed that the ignitor had gone
> Tango Uniform again but I simply power cycled the furnace and it fired
> right up and has run through several cycles. I can only assume that it
> failed to ignite at some point while I was away and the thermocouple
> shut it down. I've had the water heater go out a couple times, but only
> a couple, over the past year. Never often enough to consider it a
> problem and call in a repairman. I'm starting to wonder if there's an
> issue with the gas service (water?) but I had the water heater shut off
> while I was away so I couldn't see if the pilot on the heater had blown
> out as well. Any ideas? I can deal with relighting the water heater
> every couple months but not so much with the furnace shutting off while
> I'm away.
>
> Second problem is I'd like to strap up some pipes but have been
> completely unable to find copper roofing-type nails, which is what I
> assume I want. Only source of copper nails at all that I've been able
> to find is McMaster-Carr, but they only sell common nails and small
> tacks. Is that all that is currently available? I actually stopped at
> the hardware store that has the best selection of various fasteners that
> I've ever seen while I was on vacation and couldn't find any copper
> nails there.
>
> nate
>
Did you go to a real supply house? The local plumbing supply has small
bags (and probably large ones) of appropriate nails for Cu pipe straps
available.

Posted by Nate Nagel on December 30, 2007, 12:58 pm
George wrote:
> Nate Nagel wrote:
>
>> first problem...
>>
>> got home from xmas road trip last night. furnace was not working and
>> house was a chilly 48 degrees inside (thermostat was set to 57 while I
>> was away.) Fortunately I'd drained all the plumbing just in case it
>> got really cold and something bad happened, and also it never got
>> seriously below freezing while I was away. I ASSumed that the ignitor
>> had gone Tango Uniform again but I simply power cycled the furnace and
>> it fired right up and has run through several cycles. I can only
>> assume that it failed to ignite at some point while I was away and the
>> thermocouple shut it down. I've had the water heater go out a couple
>> times, but only a couple, over the past year. Never often enough to
>> consider it a problem and call in a repairman. I'm starting to wonder
>> if there's an issue with the gas service (water?) but I had the water
>> heater shut off while I was away so I couldn't see if the pilot on the
>> heater had blown out as well. Any ideas? I can deal with relighting
>> the water heater every couple months but not so much with the furnace
>> shutting off while I'm away.
>>
>> Second problem is I'd like to strap up some pipes but have been
>> completely unable to find copper roofing-type nails, which is what I
>> assume I want. Only source of copper nails at all that I've been able
>> to find is McMaster-Carr, but they only sell common nails and small
>> tacks. Is that all that is currently available? I actually stopped
>> at the hardware store that has the best selection of various fasteners
>> that I've ever seen while I was on vacation and couldn't find any
>> copper nails there.
>>
>> nate
>>
> Did you go to a real supply house? The local plumbing supply has small
> bags (and probably large ones) of appropriate nails for Cu pipe straps
> available.

The only "supply house" I have locally is not open outside business
hours. would happily buy from an online source.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

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