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value of solar water preheater? N8N 01-03-2007
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Posted by N8N on January 3, 2007, 11:41 pm


Could use some opinions on this, because I honestly don't know which
way to go here...

The house that I've recently purchased has a solar hot water preheater
feeding a conventional gas water heater. The solar panel portion of
the preheater appears to be in good shape, BUT the install leaves
something to be desired. It's cantilevered off the railing of the deck
behind the house, and it's actually physically pulling the railing
over. I've got it propped up with a 2x6 for now but it will need to be
pulled back into position with a come-along and properly braced at some
point in the future if it is to remain.

Now tonight I was downstairs painting some car parts in the laundry
room and noticed some seepage coming out from below the tank of the
preheater. I removed the insulation blanket from around the tank and
found that apparently the liner has completely failed and the only
thing holding the water back is the metal wall of the tank itself,
which has some pinholes in it. To make matters worse, whoever
installed it did not install the appropriate valves to allow the solar
unit to be bypassed (so that the gas fired heater would be fed directly
from the cold water line.) So I can't shut the thing off without
killing all hot water to the house.

I'm tempted to just call a plumber and have the appropriate valves
installed to bypass it, and leave it bypassed until spring since I'm
thinking it's probably of dubious value in the winter. The question
is, is it really worth it to have the tank replaced, or is the whole
solar thing a bit of misguided ecological wishful thinking on the part
of the house's previous owners?

The tank appears to be a standard electric water heater tank with the
heating elements replaced with copper loops which circulate what I
assume is an antifreeze solution that runs between the tank and the
panel outside. There's a small electric circulation pump on a timer
that runs during daylight hours.

We did get a "home warranty" with the new house but I am wondering if
they will actually cover this unit since it is not the primary hot
water heater. I will find out in the AM, I suppose.

In light of the fact that the tank has failed and the panel is causing
issues that will need to be rectified - what would you do? FWIW the
piping etc. and the panel itself appear to be in good shape. I feel
like I need to do something right away, as it's seeping now and I can't
imagine that it will ever get better, nor even stay the same for long.

thanks,

nate


Electric Radiant Heat 468x60
Posted by buffalobill on January 4, 2007, 12:46 am


if this is a device common to your climate, it may be worth replacing
especially if the electric heating of the water is expensive. it's
difficult to get thoughts wrapped around the entire property when it
comes to energy saving, but do all the homework now.


N8N wrote:
> Could use some opinions on this, because I honestly don't know which
> way to go here...
>
> The house that I've recently purchased has a solar hot water preheater
> feeding a conventional gas water heater. The solar panel portion of
> the preheater appears to be in good shape, BUT the install leaves
> something to be desired. It's cantilevered off the railing of the deck
> behind the house, and it's actually physically pulling the railing
> over. I've got it propped up with a 2x6 for now but it will need to be
> pulled back into position with a come-along and properly braced at some
> point in the future if it is to remain.
>
> Now tonight I was downstairs painting some car parts in the laundry
> room and noticed some seepage coming out from below the tank of the
> preheater. I removed the insulation blanket from around the tank and
> found that apparently the liner has completely failed and the only
> thing holding the water back is the metal wall of the tank itself,
> which has some pinholes in it. To make matters worse, whoever
> installed it did not install the appropriate valves to allow the solar
> unit to be bypassed (so that the gas fired heater would be fed directly
> from the cold water line.) So I can't shut the thing off without
> killing all hot water to the house.
>
> I'm tempted to just call a plumber and have the appropriate valves
> installed to bypass it, and leave it bypassed until spring since I'm
> thinking it's probably of dubious value in the winter. The question
> is, is it really worth it to have the tank replaced, or is the whole
> solar thing a bit of misguided ecological wishful thinking on the part
> of the house's previous owners?
>
> The tank appears to be a standard electric water heater tank with the
> heating elements replaced with copper loops which circulate what I
> assume is an antifreeze solution that runs between the tank and the
> panel outside. There's a small electric circulation pump on a timer
> that runs during daylight hours.
>
> We did get a "home warranty" with the new house but I am wondering if
> they will actually cover this unit since it is not the primary hot
> water heater. I will find out in the AM, I suppose.
>
> In light of the fact that the tank has failed and the panel is causing
> issues that will need to be rectified - what would you do? FWIW the
> piping etc. and the panel itself appear to be in good shape. I feel
> like I need to do something right away, as it's seeping now and I can't
> imagine that it will ever get better, nor even stay the same for long.
>
> thanks,
>
> nate


Posted by Stubby on January 5, 2007, 11:21 am




buffalobill wrote:
> if this is a device common to your climate, it may be worth replacing
> especially if the electric heating of the water is expensive. it's
> difficult to get thoughts wrapped around the entire property when it
> comes to energy saving, but do all the homework now.
>
>
> N8N wrote:
>> Could use some opinions on this, because I honestly don't know which
>> way to go here...
>>
>> The house that I've recently purchased has a solar hot water preheater
>> feeding a conventional gas water heater. The solar panel portion of
...

I keep all my utility payments in a spreadsheet. I have about 15+ years
of monthly numbers. It is easy to see how there are two components of
natural gas payments: the constant, seasonless cooking, hot water,
drier, clocks and computers. Then there is the big heating expense
which varies dramatically with the season.

During the Summer months, my usage will be under 25 cu-ft ($30).
However, a good, cold January will see 250+ cu-ft used.

So, a solar water heater might be able to eliminate the 25 cu-ft ($30)
constant use, but won't make a dent in the heating cost.

If you can install a solar (pre) heater for $360 per year you'll be
ahead. I've known several people who have done this but were
disappointed when various plastic and rubber parts yielded to the
sunlight, making for expensive repairs. The bottom line is solar
heaters are poor investments.

Posted by on January 4, 2007, 1:39 am



>The house that I've recently purchased has a solar hot water preheater
>feeding a conventional gas water heater.

The big problems with all these things is the hardware and
installation is shit. This is a great idea but actually making
something that will hold up is the hard part. It is probably easier to
salvage the good parts and start over than to try to fix it. Have your
plumber put some valves in so you can bypass the solar system, run it
in bypass until you get your collector system fixed and switch the
valves over.
If you use a lot of hot water during the day or early evening this can
save a lot of money.


Posted by Pete C. on January 4, 2007, 10:57 am


N8N wrote:
>
> Could use some opinions on this, because I honestly don't know which
> way to go here...
>
> The house that I've recently purchased has a solar hot water preheater
> feeding a conventional gas water heater. The solar panel portion of
> the preheater appears to be in good shape, BUT the install leaves
> something to be desired. It's cantilevered off the railing of the deck
> behind the house, and it's actually physically pulling the railing
> over. I've got it propped up with a 2x6 for now but it will need to be
> pulled back into position with a come-along and properly braced at some
> point in the future if it is to remain.
>
> Now tonight I was downstairs painting some car parts in the laundry
> room and noticed some seepage coming out from below the tank of the
> preheater. I removed the insulation blanket from around the tank and
> found that apparently the liner has completely failed and the only
> thing holding the water back is the metal wall of the tank itself,
> which has some pinholes in it. To make matters worse, whoever
> installed it did not install the appropriate valves to allow the solar
> unit to be bypassed (so that the gas fired heater would be fed directly
> from the cold water line.) So I can't shut the thing off without
> killing all hot water to the house.
>
> I'm tempted to just call a plumber and have the appropriate valves
> installed to bypass it, and leave it bypassed until spring since I'm
> thinking it's probably of dubious value in the winter. The question
> is, is it really worth it to have the tank replaced, or is the whole
> solar thing a bit of misguided ecological wishful thinking on the part
> of the house's previous owners?
>
> The tank appears to be a standard electric water heater tank with the
> heating elements replaced with copper loops which circulate what I
> assume is an antifreeze solution that runs between the tank and the
> panel outside. There's a small electric circulation pump on a timer
> that runs during daylight hours.
>
> We did get a "home warranty" with the new house but I am wondering if
> they will actually cover this unit since it is not the primary hot
> water heater. I will find out in the AM, I suppose.
>
> In light of the fact that the tank has failed and the panel is causing
> issues that will need to be rectified - what would you do? FWIW the
> piping etc. and the panel itself appear to be in good shape. I feel
> like I need to do something right away, as it's seeping now and I can't
> imagine that it will ever get better, nor even stay the same for long.
>
> thanks,
>
> nate

Not sure where you are, but in most climates a solar water heater or
preheater will work well and save a lot of gas / electricity for the
regular / backup heater. Just measure the inlet and outlet temperatures
on a halfway decent day to see how much benefit you're getting. Every
degree the solar panel raises the water is a degree the electric or gas
heater doesn't. Here in TX, I've got a few solar plans on the drawing
board.

Check alt.energy.homepower for more expertise on this stuff.

Pete C.

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