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why common trip breakers for 120V circuits?

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why common trip breakers for 120V circuits? benjunk 02-03-2008
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Posted by on February 3, 2008, 6:26 pm
I'm looking at a subpanel that was installed for an addition to my
house about 20 years ago (well before I bought it). I'm mapping out
the circuits which were never labeled.

I've found that four 120V circuits are tied to two common trip dual-
pole breakers. There are no 240V devices or outlets on these
circuits. I can see the wires tied to them and they are all black and
run into separate runs of 12/2 that lead to the addition.

Why would this have been done this way? And is there any reason I
shouldn't swap them with single pole breakers?

Also, one of those common trip breakers is rated at 30A. I've never
seen a 30A breaker used for a 120V circuit and that seems wrong to me
since the 12 gauge conductor isn't rated for 30A.

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Posted by RBM on February 3, 2008, 6:49 pm
Find first, what each cable is feeding, then it may make sense. Post back



> I'm looking at a subpanel that was installed for an addition to my
> house about 20 years ago (well before I bought it). I'm mapping out
> the circuits which were never labeled.
>
> I've found that four 120V circuits are tied to two common trip dual-
> pole breakers. There are no 240V devices or outlets on these
> circuits. I can see the wires tied to them and they are all black and
> run into separate runs of 12/2 that lead to the addition.
>
> Why would this have been done this way? And is there any reason I
> shouldn't swap them with single pole breakers?
>
> Also, one of those common trip breakers is rated at 30A. I've never
> seen a 30A breaker used for a 120V circuit and that seems wrong to me
> since the 12 gauge conductor isn't rated for 30A.



Posted by on February 3, 2008, 8:13 pm

> Find first, what each cable is feeding, then it may make sense. Post back

I don't think it helps. The breaker feeds only overhead lights and
120V outlets. Specifically, I count:

5 overhead lights
1 outdoor flood light
14 120V outlets

Two of those outlets are on the ceiling in a shop area and power 120V
fluorescent lights. Two others power the two garage door openers.

> Also, you should have 4 white wires you haven't mentioned. You have
> 4-12/2 circuits leaving the panel. Right?

4 12/2 cables tied to the two double-pole breakers. Each cable's
neutral goes to the neutral bar, and their grounds go to the ground
(which are separate since this is a subpanel).

Here's a part I didn't mention yet, but the more I look the more this
seems like the answer. What is leading me to investigate these is I
see that at some point previously the central A/C installers tied the
a/c power onto these breakers by sticking their wires under the
terminals with the existing ones (big no-no). Of course these devices
are 240V so they need a 2-pole breaker. I already know that these a/c
installers were utterly incompetent crooks, so I'm now thinking that
they went to the trouble of replacing the single pole breakers with 2-
pole so that they could feed the 240V, but of course didn't find
breaker space for what they needed and instead double-tapped the
breaker. This might account for the 30A rating on that breaker as
well, although other A/C units are tied to 20A breakers, so who
knows. I could see these guys just putting in a breaker until it
didn't trip it and saying that was good enough.

The reason I'm investigating all of this is so that I can fix it all
-- move the a/c's to their own 2-pole breakers, consolidate other
circuits as needed.

I wanted to ask about whether there was a realistic need for a 2-pole
breakers on individual 120V circuits and given your answers, I think
my guess above is probably what led to this fiasco. Now I need to
find out what the proper amperage rating is for the a/c units and fix
all of this.

Posted by RBM on February 3, 2008, 8:25 pm
Sounds like you've got it under control. You would use a double pole breaker
if you had two 120 volt circuits feeding the same outlet, which would be
split top and bottom



>
>> Find first, what each cable is feeding, then it may make sense. Post back
>
> I don't think it helps. The breaker feeds only overhead lights and
> 120V outlets. Specifically, I count:
>
> 5 overhead lights
> 1 outdoor flood light
> 14 120V outlets
>
> Two of those outlets are on the ceiling in a shop area and power 120V
> fluorescent lights. Two others power the two garage door openers.
>
>> Also, you should have 4 white wires you haven't mentioned. You have
>> 4-12/2 circuits leaving the panel. Right?
>
> 4 12/2 cables tied to the two double-pole breakers. Each cable's
> neutral goes to the neutral bar, and their grounds go to the ground
> (which are separate since this is a subpanel).
>
> Here's a part I didn't mention yet, but the more I look the more this
> seems like the answer. What is leading me to investigate these is I
> see that at some point previously the central A/C installers tied the
> a/c power onto these breakers by sticking their wires under the
> terminals with the existing ones (big no-no). Of course these devices
> are 240V so they need a 2-pole breaker. I already know that these a/c
> installers were utterly incompetent crooks, so I'm now thinking that
> they went to the trouble of replacing the single pole breakers with 2-
> pole so that they could feed the 240V, but of course didn't find
> breaker space for what they needed and instead double-tapped the
> breaker. This might account for the 30A rating on that breaker as
> well, although other A/C units are tied to 20A breakers, so who
> knows. I could see these guys just putting in a breaker until it
> didn't trip it and saying that was good enough.
>
> The reason I'm investigating all of this is so that I can fix it all
> -- move the a/c's to their own 2-pole breakers, consolidate other
> circuits as needed.
>
> I wanted to ask about whether there was a realistic need for a 2-pole
> breakers on individual 120V circuits and given your answers, I think
> my guess above is probably what led to this fiasco. Now I need to
> find out what the proper amperage rating is for the a/c units and fix
> all of this.



Posted by Edwin Pawlowski on February 3, 2008, 9:35 pm

> Here's a part I didn't mention yet, but the more I look the more this
> seems like the answer.

Then why did you post without it? If you want answers, give compete
information the first time. We can't see what you have, we can't discern
what is hiding unless you give ALL the information pertaining to the
subject. You wasted the time of a lot of people with your negligence.



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