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wiring question -- switch to GFCI? fnord 02-06-2005
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Posted by fnord on February 6, 2005, 9:51 pm


I'm trying to wire up a new circuit for a diswasher and garbage
disposal. I know that it would be ideal to have dishwasher and disposal
on separate circuits, but I'm out of circuits. I will eventually put in
a sub board for the garage, but for now, this will have to do.

The circuit is fine, everything tests out well, the neon tester looks
good. Here's the chain I've built:

1. Circuit board -> 2-wire -> single pole switch (for disposal)

2. Same single pole switch -> 3-wire -> GFCI outlet to go under the
sink for the disposal

3. Same GFCI outlet -> 2-wire -> the dishwasher hookup.

I've got the 3-wire in the middle, to feed the red as the switched
"hot" to the GFCI receptacle. The black is also hooked up as the
constant for the switch, which runs straight through to the dishwasher
hookup.

The power hits the switch fine, the switch "switches" fine, but
somewhere past the switch it dies, the first GFCI outlet never powers
up. If I run the tester from ground -> red wire, it works. If I run the
tester from ground -> white wire, the yellow "tripped" light comes on.

The tester shows that at the dishwasher hookup, past the GFCI outlet,
ground -> black wire is hot, ground -> white wire is not.

I've got a similar setup elsewhere, going GFCI -> switch -> light
fixture -> GFCI outlet, and it all works peachy.

Is there something I'm missing? Does hooking up a switch to a GFCI
outlet require some special wiring or something that I'm missing? It's
definitely connected to the ground, and when I test the wires going
into the first GFCI outlet, they all work fine (once the switch is on).

Do I maybe not need the GFCI for the disposal? It seemed like it's
mighty close to water, which I believe is the main criteria.

Any advice? I'm stumped.


Thanks,
John



Special 468x60
Posted by toller on February 7, 2005, 6:24 am


You have power at the switch, but not at the outlet that the switch is wired
to? Now you know perfectly well that is not possible unless there is a
break in the wire. Do you mean the GFCI has tripped, or there is actually
no voltage going to it?
Maybe you you can explain what your tester is, and how you are using it.
However, if you have two parallel GFCI outlets, and something is running in
one, if you jump H-N in the other, it could trip. The neutral is "hot" in
that it is returning current to the ground. Normally you would not notice,
but if you short H-N, some current will return via that connection since it
is as good as any other direct ground. Since there is an imbalance on the
H&N in that GFCI it will trip.

However... if your garbage disposal and dishwasher are normal build-in
appliances there is no need to use GFCI outlets with them.




Posted by SQLit on February 7, 2005, 11:30 am



> I'm trying to wire up a new circuit for a diswasher and garbage
> disposal. I know that it would be ideal to have dishwasher and disposal
> on separate circuits, but I'm out of circuits. I will eventually put in
> a sub board for the garage, but for now, this will have to do.
>
> The circuit is fine, everything tests out well, the neon tester looks
> good. Here's the chain I've built:
>
> 1. Circuit board -> 2-wire -> single pole switch (for disposal)
>
> 2. Same single pole switch -> 3-wire -> GFCI outlet to go under the
> sink for the disposal
>
> 3. Same GFCI outlet -> 2-wire -> the dishwasher hookup.
>
> I've got the 3-wire in the middle, to feed the red as the switched
> "hot" to the GFCI receptacle. The black is also hooked up as the
> constant for the switch, which runs straight through to the dishwasher
> hookup.
>
> The power hits the switch fine, the switch "switches" fine, but
> somewhere past the switch it dies, the first GFCI outlet never powers
> up. If I run the tester from ground -> red wire, it works. If I run the
> tester from ground -> white wire, the yellow "tripped" light comes on.
>
> The tester shows that at the dishwasher hookup, past the GFCI outlet,
> ground -> black wire is hot, ground -> white wire is not.
>
> I've got a similar setup elsewhere, going GFCI -> switch -> light
> fixture -> GFCI outlet, and it all works peachy.
>
> Is there something I'm missing? Does hooking up a switch to a GFCI
> outlet require some special wiring or something that I'm missing? It's
> definitely connected to the ground, and when I test the wires going
> into the first GFCI outlet, they all work fine (once the switch is on).
>
> Do I maybe not need the GFCI for the disposal? It seemed like it's
> mighty close to water, which I believe is the main criteria.
>
> Any advice? I'm stumped.
>
>
> Thanks,
> John

out of circuits nonsense. buy twin breakers. Depending on the area you live
and NEC being enforced garbage disposals and dw's are required to be on
separate circuits.
Since the 20 amp outlet for the garage disposal and dishwasher is for
equipment I know of no code that requires a gfci.




Posted by on February 7, 2005, 7:15 pm


wrote:

>
>> I'm trying to wire up a new circuit for a diswasher and garbage
>> disposal. I know that it would be ideal to have dishwasher and disposal
>> on separate circuits, but I'm out of circuits. I will eventually put in
>> a sub board for the garage, but for now, this will have to do.
>>
>> The circuit is fine, everything tests out well, the neon tester looks
>> good. Here's the chain I've built:
>>
>> 1. Circuit board -> 2-wire -> single pole switch (for disposal)
>>
>> 2. Same single pole switch -> 3-wire -> GFCI outlet to go under the
>> sink for the disposal
>>
>> 3. Same GFCI outlet -> 2-wire -> the dishwasher hookup.
>>
>> I've got the 3-wire in the middle, to feed the red as the switched
>> "hot" to the GFCI receptacle. The black is also hooked up as the
>> constant for the switch, which runs straight through to the dishwasher
>> hookup.
>>
>> The power hits the switch fine, the switch "switches" fine, but
>> somewhere past the switch it dies, the first GFCI outlet never powers
>> up. If I run the tester from ground -> red wire, it works. If I run the
>> tester from ground -> white wire, the yellow "tripped" light comes on.
>>
>> The tester shows that at the dishwasher hookup, past the GFCI outlet,
>> ground -> black wire is hot, ground -> white wire is not.
>>
>> I've got a similar setup elsewhere, going GFCI -> switch -> light
>> fixture -> GFCI outlet, and it all works peachy.
>>
>> Is there something I'm missing? Does hooking up a switch to a GFCI
>> outlet require some special wiring or something that I'm missing? It's
>> definitely connected to the ground, and when I test the wires going
>> into the first GFCI outlet, they all work fine (once the switch is on).
>>
>> Do I maybe not need the GFCI for the disposal? It seemed like it's
>> mighty close to water, which I believe is the main criteria.
>>
>> Any advice? I'm stumped.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> John
>
>out of circuits nonsense. buy twin breakers. Depending on the area you live
>and NEC being enforced garbage disposals and dw's are required to be on
>separate circuits.
>Since the 20 amp outlet for the garage disposal and dishwasher is for
>equipment I know of no code that requires a gfci.
>


Good point, I think after reading codes on gfci's, the general
impression is to protect personal from cord and plug items, not
inplace equipment. Unless, the person operates the equipment naked
and wet, like a jaccuzi tub or dangles over it, like lights.

later,

tom @ www.ChopURL.com





Posted by Greg on February 8, 2005, 2:21 am


>Depending on the area you live
>>and NEC being enforced garbage disposals and dw's are required to be on
>>separate circuits.

There may be some local rule but it is not an NEC rule as long as each of them
is less than 50% of the circuit ampacity.


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